Hi Guys,
Just finished a rebuild and I did a bit of weighing before and after to see what I came up with. The rod is a 5'6" baitcaster originally set up in a conventional build with a size 8 tip, five size 8's, a 10,12 and 16. Guides were double foot with under and overbinding. The grips and reelseat were in good condition so they stayed. Rebuilt it with an O'Quinn spiral with a size 5 tip, 5 size 4's, a 6 and an 8 single footers with a single binding. Original weight was 108 grams. Stripped weight was 100 grams and the rebuilt weight was 101 grams. Saved 7 grams which is the weight of an Aussie 10 cent piece. Add a Chronach CH101BSV which weighed 277 grams and you get 378 grams. 7 grams in 378 is not much and I think you'd have to be pretty astute to tell the difference. At least the weight savings are in the part of the rod which counts most. The guides are a lot smaller and there should be a bit less wind resistance and 1 less guide might reduce the resistance in the guide train so it should be better than before but I don't know how you measure that. For the unmetricated 30 grams equals 1.05 ozs.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Removing that kind of weight from the tip of a bass rod will make a HUGE difference. I've done the same thing for some local bass guys and they can't believe the difference.

jeremy

This is another reason not to use more than a couple or three guide sizes. A straighter line path at less weight is created with the use of all the same size running guides rather than the stair-step path, and greater weight, created when you use multiples of several different sized guides.

..............

Hi Jeremy,
Unfortunately all the weight didn't come from the tip but spread out over the guide train. The micros are a lot lighter than the 8's that were on there and therefore the tip should be a lot more sensitive but how do you measure that? It's just a matter of opinion. I know it's lighter and that will probably affect my thinking when using it. Maybe someone can develop a test to measure sensitivity but I think you'd need some sophisticated equipment.
Tom I would have used all 4's if I could have gotten away with it but needed some extra height to get the O'Quinn spiral set up correctly.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

I thought you did very well. A butt guide, an intermediate guide and then all the same size running guides is the ideal set up (in some cases you can skip the intermediate guide). It offers the straightest line path and least amount of weight.

.........

Tom,
Been doing some guide weighing on the lab scales at work to see the difference between stainless and titanium frames. Will post when I get it finished. Size 4's in Titanium weigh 0.0502 grams while the 8's weigh 0.304 grams and the 6's 0.190 grams so there is a bit of difference.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Col,
If you really want to save weight, tape a reel onto a blank, and install a tip on the end of the blank and go fishing.
this will be a very very light build up. It will even catch lots of fish.

Roger

Col,

Emory Harry has equipment for measuring sensitivity. Look up his post from the last few years, and read for days. The poor man's test is what I call the carpet test. Hold the rod like you are fishing, and try to brush the top of the carpet as lightly as possible. You will be able to pick out a more sensitive rod in a hurry.

My latest project is meant to answer the question "I can get a pole at X-mart, what makes your rod better?" I took a pair of old cheap rods, but built on surprisingly nice blanks for a wally world special, from the same year class and same model, stripped one completely and rebuilt it with spiral wrapped micros, split EVA grips, no fore grip, and a balancer butt cap. I left the other rod in its original factory form. I can now demonstrate the differences between a factory, balanced, and unbalanced. The rebuilt rod without the balancer will make you think that it's built on a completely different blank.

Joe

Roger,

What you suggest will also create a "bowstring" effect which can quickly cause the rod blank to fail from a very unnatural bend. That scenario can easily put a blank into a flex well beyond 90 degrees with even a light load.

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Joe, the "X-Mart rod" reference is funny but location is everything. There happens to be a "marital aid" shop close by with that name. But that is a great idea, I'll have to try that as a demo tool, thanks for bringing it up.

Hi Joe,
Thanks for that. I'll look it up and do some reading. Wish you guys would stop giving me ideas to spend my hard earned cash on.
Roger, looks like I'll have to go for a walk and cut down a bamboo pole, tie some line to the end and go fishing. Would certainly be cheaper!!

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

One thing you will see with the smaller guides on the tip section of the rod, you might have to learn a new release point depending on how you cast a lure. With less weight on the tip, it reacts quicker when you make a cast. When I first converted a rod to all micros and I made a cast, I noticed the lure was going to the left of where I was trying to target the cast. With the rod reacting quicker and not being held back by the heavier guides, once I figured out the new release point now I have no problems. It is just something to adjust to if you are use to casting that rod with the heavier guides that were on before.

Mike Sledden Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing you will see with the smaller guides on
> the tip section of the rod, you might have to
> learn a new release point depending on how you
> cast a lure. With less weight on the tip, it
> reacts quicker when you make a cast. When I first
> converted a rod to all micros and I made a cast, I
> noticed the lure was going to the left of where I
> was trying to target the cast. With the rod
> reacting quicker and not being held back by the
> heavier guides, once I figured out the new release
> point now I have no problems. It is just
> something to adjust to if you are use to casting
> that rod with the heavier guides that were on
> before.

Right. I also experienced a lot of "squirrel casts" when I was forced to cast overhead.

_________________________________________
"Angling is extremely time consuming.
That's sort of the whole point." - Thomas McGuane

Col

How about one of these High Teck [www.rodbuilding.org]

Bill - willierods.com

Hi Bill,
Might give that one to Roger and I'll stick with the bamboo pole. Very high tech!!!

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

Of course I know that the 0 guide route on a rod blank is a receipe for disaster. I was just trying to make the point that if you really want to save weight, you can take it to this extreme.

But actually, if you added either one or two guides in the major part of the quick bending part of the rod, you could likely use such a configuration with little risk of blank damage.

I don 't intend to build such a rod, but sometimes I think that sometimes folks take the weight issue a bit too far.

I advocate building light, but within reason.

Good posts.

Roger

Col,
By the way, there have been lots and lots of fish caught by tying a cotton cord to the end of a willow branch. Then a hook is tied to the line and a nail is hooked to the end of the line to keep the hook near the bottom.

Many years ago, when working on the railroad, I would go over to the local hardware store and pick up a set line for $1.50.

This was a 50 foot line, with about 20 hooks on the line.
I would take the line, bait up all of the hooks, tie a railroad spike on the end for weight, and then lob the baited hooks out into the river with the railroad spike on the end to keep the line in place against the current flow of the river.

I would take the end of the line, tie it to a tree, and go get a good nights sleep.
After getting off work the next day, I would go down to the river, pull in the line and see what we would be having for supper.

Maybe trout, maybe sucker, maybe golden eye. You never knew what would be swimming around the dark river each night.

Folks have been using a million methods to catch fish from the time that we first started walking upright, hundreds of thousands of years ago.

With respect to rod building, we always need to keep our eyes, minds and hands open for new ideas, and be always willing to look at and give new ideas a good try to see if they might work for our particular needs.

Such is the fun and adventure of building our new custom rods on a daily basis.

Be safe and have lots of happy wraps.

Roger

Hi Roger,

When I was a kid my dad couldn't afford to buy me a rod so my first "outfit' consisted of 100 yds of second hand 12lb line wound onto a drink bottle for fishing off the beach. Caught a lot of fish and learned heaps using that. Kids these days go straight to a rod and I think they miss out on a lot of stuff that can only be learned by fishing with a hand line and you never forget the stuff you learn when your a kid.

Always looking for ideas when it comes to rodbuilding as the craft might be fairly well advanced but there is always something to learn and things that haven't been tried.

These days I've got more rods than you can poke a stick at and still looking to build more.

After 60 years I've never lost the passion for fishing off the beach and do it summer and winter.

You stay safe also and I'm always happy when wrapping.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia