This post is only directed to heavier rods like 8wts and up, and is just a rant,,,take it for what it is...no more no less.

-Its amazing how much you can like a rod when casting with no comparison to base it against. But take several rods out at the same time and the differences are amplified significantly to the point where you notice huge differences in performance qualities.-


As some of you might know I am simply addicted to casting all sorts of fly rods any time I get a free minute. Consiquently I have done side by side comparisons to most fly rods I can get my hands on including manufactured rods, custom rods, and now even more than a few sample rods of various levels of composite amounts. I may be opening a can of worms here, but I must say,allthough subjective those of you who say lower levels of graphite can produce just as nice a fly rod as higher modulus rods are IMO wrong as can be. I agree that mid level IM6 type materials can produce some damn nice rods, but realisticaly never seem to dampen enough, or seem to be responsive enough so as ro have a real winner when compared to higher modulus fly rods. Often lower modulus rods are very tip heavy.....need way to much torque to get line moving....and often take way to much energy to get back in control on the quick stops of the fly cast.
Allthough some higher modulus rods can be pretty poor casters, the good ones are most always at the top of the heap when it comes to side by side comparisons. When working with lower modulus rods for any amount of time it gets to be down right heavy labor when approaching that one hour mark in the park (by one hour I mean an hour of repeated casting), and starts to seriously take a toll on my forearm and shoulder. The higher modulus blanks at the same time seem to be a pleasure to cast well into a casting session. I guess what I'm saying,or at least what my opinion is. is that no matter how nice the lower modulus blanks are designed they can most always be out trumped by higher grade materials no matter what the taper and build is.


Having said this I would like to know if any of you know any mid modulus rods/blanks (8wt or above) that you feel can knock the higher modulus rods of the top pedistal.

Have you tried out TFO BVK, Batson RX8, PacBay Quickline, MHX fly blanks in 8 weight? I have not yet, and I will be building a couple 8 wts. These blanks are all are about the same price range and weight in ounces. Specifically for shooting sinking heads and/or bass taper floating lines.

Greg

I've tried (and own) lots of different 7 and 9wts (actually only have one 8wt and It is not built yet) and I can't argue with the technical aspects of you argument. However It has been my experience that the most important factor in determining how much work you have to put into a rod is how the rod matches your casting style. I real world fishing situations (as opposed to a park) I can throw my lower modulus (IM6) rod just as far as my Baston RX8+ rod. While one is fast and the other medium I enjoy spending all day with either. On the other hand I have a St Croix Elite blank in 9wt that I have just never liked. Same with a early Cabelas very fast 9wt blank. That same St Croix in a 7wt is great. Like they are two different rods.
TFO BVK is next on my list of builds. I will report back in when it is done.

Quinn

I agree with almost everything you say, particularly about 8wt+ rods (although I do think you are putting to much emphasis on modulus over design and materials). I do think there are some other issues brought up by Quinn. All things being equal, the higher end rods perform better, however, also important is how the rod is matched to the line and how the combination of rod and line matches up with the person casting it. For example, I have a 4wt that most people say should be lined with a 4wt or even overlined. I was very disappointed in the rod until I matched it with a 3wt line. Now it is my favorite small stream rod (probably because I have a more aggressive "saltwater" casting stroke).

This really complicates things when building a custom fly rod. You not only have to know how the rod casts, but you also need to know what "feel" the customer likes and what combination of rod and line accomplishes that. I know some people who actually like the lower modulus rods because the like to feel the swing weight when the cast.

Although I like to experiment with different blanks, I have a few that I really like to build on. This is actually a dangerous thing to do, since it encourgages me to build what I like rather than what the customer wants.

Have built a few of the MHX 4 piece 8wt's and they cast very well. Smooth and crisp. Just finished a couple of Batson RX8 4 piece 8wt's and I feel these are a bit faster and also cast very well. I personally like the faster actions particularly when trying to punch a long cast into the wind or when I need to pull a lot of line off the water quickly, load it up once then let it fly. I really like more moderate action rods when throwing big sinking lines, 550grains and up. It forces you to slow down your casting stroke and with those heavier lines, can help quite a bit. I am building a new St. Croix SCV 9wt witht he NSI resin and hope to have it done in time to put it through it's paces down at Harker's Island in early November on the bigger albies. I got to cast one of Lefty's BVK's early last year and feel that it is by far the best stick TFO has come out with to date. Doesn't have that dead feeling that some of theTFO's seem to have.

I believe that Quinn is on the right track. The casting stroke has more to do with fatigue than the rod, so long as we are talking floating or sink-tip lines. Lifting full sinking lines and "depth bomb" shooting heads from the water is the worst culprit in shoulder/arm fatigue. I doubt that rod dampening makes much difference in lifting sinking lines from the water.

Greg Foy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you tried out TFO BVK, Batson RX8, PacBay
> Quickline, MHX fly blanks in 8 weight? I have not
> yet, and I will be building a couple 8 wts. These
> blanks are all are about the same price range and
> weight in ounces. Specifically for shooting
> sinking heads and/or bass taper floating lines.
>
> Greg

With the exeption on the TFO I have casted all of the above (in 8wt) quite extensively......and all side by side for that matter. I feel the new Quickline blanks have a nicer swing weight than the others, and are a bit more responsive. The are simply fantastic. In fact I cant believe these things arent getting more rave reviews. They are amongst the nicest blanks I have built on to date. I will do a full review on the 8wt when I get some time. Again, reviews are very subjetive, but many people have been asking about them with very little info out there to date.

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe that Quinn is on the right track. The
> casting stroke has more to do with fatigue than
> the rod, so long as we are talking floating or
> sink-tip lines. Lifting full sinking lines and
> "depth bomb" shooting heads from the water is the
> worst culprit in shoulder/arm fatigue. I doubt
> that rod dampening makes much difference in
> lifting sinking lines from the water.

Ah....it most certainly does. Consider the inertia from sinking tips on the back cast, and then forward cast . Would you rather stop that motion with a peice of steel, or with a fiberglass bicycle flag pole. Of course the two extremes, but theres alot more going on with sore arms than simply pulling the line off the water.

Larry,
Like you I've also cast a lot of rods back to back to back.
In general the top tier guys can charge what they do because the rods deliver more than the bargain basement variety.
Winston, Thomas & Thomas, Sage deserve their place and their price for making a top quality blank.

Eugene Moore

Larry, I have been eyeing the Pacbay quickline ccs numbers amd it look good.
Thanks for the reply, I think I'll give it a try.

Greg