Hi guys,

Here's a little bit of history about my current project.

I am in the process of rebuilding a St. Croix Avid Inshore for catching snook, reds, and tarpon down here in St. Florida. The rod I am rebuilding was originally a 8 foot long Medium Heavy 14-30lb 1/2-2oz but the top foot broke. I had a few other similar broken rods sitting around so I decided to used the top portion of another Avid Inshore rod to extend this one to a total of 9' 2pc as it seats now. I removed all of the guides and wet sanded the rod down to the bare paint and then gave 2 coats of permagloss. The coating is now set, fully cured, and I am ready for wrapping.

The rod originally came with ALPS 30, 20, 16, 12, a couple of 10 including the chocker and then a few 8's. I decided to wrap the rod using 10 total guides plus tip, and substitute the factory #10 chocker and running guides for #8 in order to save some un-needed weight. I was doing the NGC but I ran into a couple of issues and here's where I need your help. I will be using a 5000-8000 Shimano reel with a 54mm-60mm spool so the factory ALPS VS3 30mm is staying as the stripper guide, the main problem I am having is that the next guide #20 (circled in Blue) falls short [www.rodbuilding.org], and then on the same picture is a Fuji Sic #10 (circled in Red) next to the chocker (circled in Yellow) I had to use because the ALPS #12 I had was too tall.

Solution #1: I could either use the ALPS #20 guide even though it doesn't quite match the height required, or try to find a way taller #20 guide that matches the frame and insert color of these ALPS VS3 guides. Suggestions please.

Solution #2: Replace the ALPS #8 chocker with a #10 just like the factory uses and then #8 running guides from then on. I know this would kind of defeat the purporse of using the same size choker and running guides as described by the NGC but I do not know what else to do. This is how that set up would look (30, 20, 16, 12, 10 chocker) as used on a factory unmodified St. Croix Avid Inshore 8' MH that I have laying around [www.rodbuilding.org]. Again, you can see that it looks pretty good from the factory using the #10 chocker but the #20 guide still falls quite short of alignment.

Solutions #3: ???? Open to any suggestions.

Finally, I was able to do a Static Deflection Test on the upper portion of the rod and here's how it looks [www.rodbuilding.org]. What do you guys think. Is it good enough.

I would really appreciate any help or advice you could give me on the subject. Thank you in advance.

Pedro

What size and type line will be you using?

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Tom,

I only fish with braid so the answer would be 40-50lb braid 95%+ of the time and a distant maybe 20-25lb mono.

Thanks,

Pedro

If using braid, I'd try dropping to a high frame #25 butt guide and then reset the others from there and see how that works out.

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Not for nothing - but how did or what were you doing when the original rod broke the top foot ???

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,

I purchased this as well as some other rods for parts only. They had all been damaged in some way or another before I got them. I am keeping this 2 piece 9 footer as it stand now to fish mainly for Tarpon.

Thanks,

Pedro

I installed a total of 10 guides on this rod because that's what most people including the article recommend but to be honest with you I think I could easily remove 1 guide. The guides are pretty stacked up, from the rod's tip: 1st guide - 3", 2nd - 3.5", 3rd - 3.5", 4th - 4", 5th - 4.5", 6th - 5". Also, the stripper is only 20" from the spool lip. Do you guys think I should place the 25mm guide up around the 24-26" mark and maybe remove one of the transition guides for a total of three including the stripper. Thanks

One guide per foot - 8 ft rod start at 8 guides You have too many guides.

First guide 3 inches from the top I only do this on UL light or fly rods.

A good starting spacing I go to St Croix - but that is only a Starting Point

Bill - willierods.com

Try it. For that size spool and line you may find that moving the butt guide up a bit proves beneficial. Try a high frame 25 as I mentioned earlier and see how things go.

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Bill,

This particular rod was originally 8' without any broken parts, the tip was broken and was left with a bottom section of 7' still intact so I made it into a 2 piece and it is now exactly 9' from top butt to tip. Most people recommend one guide per feet + one for a total of 10 on a 9' rod. Is this correct.

The original 8' blank's tip was supposed to be a size 6 but the one I installed is a 4.5 and that's the main reason why there are so many guides stacked up top because the tip feels very fast on this MH saltwater rod [www.rodbuilding.org]. I measured it and I would have to cut about 6 inches from the tip to make the tip a 6 size once again. I am still debating if I should cut it the additional 6 inches and make it into a 8'6" rod with a size 6 tip. Main reasons being that I would still like to throw lighter (1/2 Rapala Skitter Walk, Subwalk, etc) to uncoming Tarpon, plus I see no purpose on adding an additional rod section to gain only 1.5 feet, for all that trouble I might as well leave it intact at 7' don't you think. I did a few test cast with the rod this afternoon and it would cast 50+ yards with ease.

Regards,

Pedro

Thanks Tom, thats what I'll do. I am expecting a new shipment this week and some of the guides I ordered are size 25.

Pedro,
It looks to me that if you simply made the 3rd guide either smaller or shorter, your problem would be solved. Basically make the straight line from the reel to the 3td guide and then pick up the runners to the tip. The line will flow nice and easy and you will be on track.

Roger

Second the #25 as your first guide. I have a few of the 3SW76MHF built and all start with a 25. Most have stradic 4000's or 5000's on them loaded with 20lb braid. I went 25, 16, 10 in Fuji TYSG's then drop down to the fly guides for the remaining. Cast a mile and is very smooth. One of my favorite rods to fish.

Roger,

I am trying to use all Batson VS3 guides and I have tried every possible combination with the transition guides I have at hand 30, 20, 16, 12 and there's always one that's out of alignment. Tom, hit the nail on the head when he suggested the size 25 for the stripper and even though I do not have one at hand at this moment in time I did some ruff measurements and it looks like it is going to fall about 25 inches from the spool face which seems about right for this type of rod. The other guides which look to fit perfectly with the 25 stripper are 16, 10 and then 8 for the runnning guides plus tip.

A couple of questions, can the stripper and the next guide be 13-15 inches apart. Also, can the chocker be adjusted a couple of inches back or forth in order to achieve the perfect guide alignment.

Thanks,

Pedro

Yes, and yes.

Fishing line is highly flexible so fudging a bit, an inch fore or aft, isn't going to matter by any huge amount.

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Got it. Thank you.

On spinning rods usually builders use high frame guides Most if not all are the same height. Get yourself a - Complete Set of cheep guides you can use to figure out what sizes you need --- then order those

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,

I know exactly what you mean, as a matter of fact I do have complete sets of spinning guides but they are all Fuji LV Concept style frame. This is actually my first time using the Batson VS3 spinning guide and I have many of them in all sizes except 25. I immediately noticed that these Batson guides are even higher than the Fuji Concept guides, they look to be stronger too, plus they are supposed to me made of a higher quality stainless steel which is a definite plus for the type of fishing I do (inshore). My next parts order is going to include a set of Pac Bay Minima which are also supposed to be really light and tall. Other than three style guides mentioned above what other type of light and tall guides would you recommend I try.

Thanks,

Pedro

Pedro,
I have built several rods using the VS3 guides for the folks that want and need a very very strong guide. This is one of the strongest guides on the market for the type blanks on which they are used.

I commonly use the Pac Bay Minima guides and are some of my favorite guides to use, Nice and light, inexpensive, and very tough guides as well.

Roger