Hello rodbuilders! Amazing site and great info. My apologies in advance for a long winded first post...

I've been a fishing addict since I was a little kid, but have never built my own rod. So for my 40th this year I have decided to build myself a surf / rock rod. Through fishing experience and reading a MASSIVE amount of information over the last two months, plus visiting shops and checking out other rods...I've come up with the following:

11ft spinning rod built with a Lamiglas GSB132 2M blank. To be used with a Daiwa Emblem Pro and 30lb mono. The rod will be used for throwing lures and occasional live bait off the rocks around Sydney, Australia and catching everything from 1lb black drum, 5lb bonito, up to 30lb kingfish (yellowtail) and tuna. I've decided to go the heavier M blank due to the rigors of rock fishing and the heavier lures we sometimes throw, plus I want it to be a kind of "jack of all trades" rod.

I've studied the NGC as well as looked at other rod manufacturer's suggestions and read everyone's comments on this site and have a pretty good idea of guide placement and how to correctly do static testing and test casting. I'd like to use the new K frame Fuji guides for all of the guides. My reel face is 75mm OD which dictates (as per NGC) that I will most likely be using a size 40 butt guide. I would like to use size 10 choker and running guides. After laying out my rough estimates along my blank, it looks like I will have 7 guides total plus the tip top. I'll have the butt guide in 40, two reduction guides, the choker + 3 running guides in size 10. My two questions for you experienced builders out there:

1) The size 40 butt guide to the size 10 choker seems a big jump down only using two reduction guides. Is it ok to go something like 40-25-16 then the choker or should I try to fit another reduction guide in so that it runs more like 40-30-25-16, or yet again use a 30 butt guide (since the K frames are quite high) so that it runs 30-25-16 then 10 choker?

2) The NGC recommends placing the butt guide at around 28 inches from the face of the reel. My reel face is 28 inches from the rod butt and so that will put the butt guide at 52 inches from the rod butt. No other custom or production surf rod i have seen has the butt guide that close to the reel or the rod butt. Am I losing something in translation or is this the whole idea with the NGC? Even some of the new Daiwa rods that claim to be using the NGC have their butt guides at more like 36-40 inches from reel face. Any suggestions on this one?

Thanks so much for any advice and help you can give. I'm sure I'll be asking loads more questions in my quest to build a rod, but am really looking forward to becoming quite addicted to the whole process.

Chris,

I am currently laying out a 13 footer with a reel spool diameter of 70 mm. According to the NGC, my choker is 40 and my reduction guides are 25, 16. I then have 10's every 6" out to a 12 tip. My butt guide is 29 inches from the reel spool face. The reel seat is positioned based on my arm/hand dimensions. The total number of guides ended up at 12. I did a preliminary static test last night and as it truns out the 27x method places the choker right where the rod begins to shut down. I have't done any casting yet so the placement is not final.

Don't compare it with a factory rod. Place the guides and test it and if it works, so be it. Just because the factory does it doesn't make it optimal. Don't forget they are in the business of selling product, not optimizing performance.

Don't worry about quickly reducing guide size - that's the better way to do it.

First, make sure you can use size 10's for your running guides. You can't dictate that - your line and shock leader knot will tell you how small you can go.

Testing guide layouts is a great way to learn. It only takes a few minutes to try different things. The line path will dictate where any sized butt guide will go, so don't just set it down at 28 inches. Let the line path show you where to place it. Try your 40 (high frame is best) and then try a set up with a 50. They'll wind up in different locations and you can easily choose the one that seems to work best for you.

..............

Thanks so much John and Tom for the insight. Tom - I rarely use a leader as most of the lures I tie directly to the mono or if throwing gar (ballyhoo) on gang hooks I have a swivel and a leader. So 10's should go ok with 30lb...??? But will see how they go with tests. Cheers again.

Oh one more - There's not too many opinions out there yet on the new K frame guides. Has anyone used them that can give feedback? I was going to go with M's but the guy at my local shop is swearing by the K's.

10's will easily pass 30lb mono and more. As far as the knots are concerned, different knots may or may not pass depending on the diameter of the leader line. For example, if you allow for three x dia of main line and 1 x dia. of 60 lb leader the thickness at the knot would be (.60 x 3) + (.90 x 1) = 2.70mm for the 30lb line with a 60lb shock leader. The number 10's I have will easily pass 3mm and will probably pass 5-6mm.

Another note about knots passing through guides. If the tag ends of the knot are on each end of the knot it may be easier to pass the knot if the tag ends are left a bit long. I found this info on float fishing sites from the UK. Apparently they like to leave the tag ends a bit long claiming that the tag ends serves to deflect the bulk of the knot towards the center of the guide ring thus passing through the guides easier. I have tried it with small line diameters and the stop knot passes through the guides easier, however, I have yet to try the technique with heavier line.