Hi All,

I have just completed one MHX SJ843-2, and currently working on the same rod blank to finish shortly.

My question is can the same blank have several different guide positions and still be operating at its' most effective point.

I test cast the second rod that I am completing using exactly the same reel, line and sinker. Both rods are getting the same distances. The static guide test also looks good.

However when I put the rods side by side, the guide placements are anything from a 1/2 inch to 3 inches apart. There is only one point that is almost equal (1/4 inch), which happens to be where the #6 running guides start.

I have also tried the NGC, but that was going to leave me with one less running guide. However I think that I may be missing out on something when setting it up.

The Mudhole guide spacing is different again to the above and has one less guide.

My guide sizes are 5 x #6, 10, 16 , 25.

Reel size is 2500 at 48 mm dia.

The guide spacing of first rod was from a local blank manufacturer, and the second rod is from a guide calculator that I downloaded sometime ago.

Essentially I have no issue with the spacings, but I would just like to know if there is a way to determine optimum (or near optimum) placing before I bind, and for future rods.

Thanks,

Richard

I was shown something many years ago that told myself that every rod I build would have somewhat different placements. This person had 10 blanks of the same model and when held by the tips, the butt ends all were at different positions, not one of the blanks flexed the same. I use the NGC and it gets me my location for the choker guide and then I layout my running guides to the tip and I see best at first. But I use the static placement to refine the guide positions to make sure the line path looks good to the blank which means I may need to add or remove guides to get the best line path. The thing to me, since I saw how each blank flexed differently, it meant to me to get the best line path I would have to adjust my guide spacing differently even if I am making the same identical rods.

Richard -
Mike is spot on. Manufacturing inconsistencies will creep in no matter how good the quality control is - and they're probably doing a visual inspection for finish and likely 'spot checking' for those elusive terms "power", "action", "flex" etc.

In short - no two blanks flex the same. So when doing a Static test the guides will be in different positions on each blank.

Bill - willierods.com

Richard,
That is the very reason I use a spreadsheet to determine guide spacing.
The "perfect' spacing is different for each blank, but variations in blanks and subjective factors make this an infinite number of permutations. Added to line stiffness, line dia, rod tip velocity, casting energy utilized. Guide number and position variation can be different for each build.
Find a position that works and use it each time.
Change that position based on the fishing conditions utilized by the angler, not allow the blank variation to dictate terms.

Eugene Moore

Great Post !

I read Tom K's post in our library extensively as i did with all that boards listings about static guide placement and tested this through out my builds and just messing around. Some of the blanks were same model and make but in the static test, guide placement was not the same for those two builds. My lesson learned? Static test all my builds no matter what the blank and were it came from same action or not ! Good post in clarification IMHO.


Very Nice!

Rick H.

rwheil@msn.com

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As far as IMHO you build one and mark the guide positions - guaranteed it will not be the same on another, That is why Tom K's article is a good place to start. Even a spacing chart form some one like ST Croix - just to start - then get it right with a static test ---- and test casting

Bill - willierods.com

Richard,
If you are looking for the perfect guide positions I think that you are chasing your tail. The function of guides is line control and stress distribution. Neither of these dictates that the positon of guides is critical. What is critical in terms of rod performance is not the exact position of the guides but the weight that the guides add especially with the guides that are near the tip of the rod.
There are a lot of people that are anal about guide p[ositioning but if you use the static method described above and try to minumize the angle of the line going into and out of the guides and use no more guides than are necessary and use guides that are as light as the application allows you are close enough.

Hi All,

In summary then, I can conclude that there are several different guide placings that will give you the same result.

Thanks again,

Richard

I would bet my rocket goes as high as yours n?? LOL

Bill - willierods.com

If you think that's unusual, check out my post from 5 years ago . . .

[rodbuilding.org]

Your right Tim Everyone has there own way. But like is said - one per foot And maybe one per plus one ???

But the tip where there is usually all the breaks IMHO, I feel should be protected more so I usually start with the first guide - light stuff- at 3 -4 ". from tip top. Then progress . I try not to go more then 10 " at the butt.

After placed static test. How close should the line mimic the blank-How many guides you use. I guess there we all differ. Static test and test casting should give you that answer.

Less guides smaller guides - better rod performance

Bill - willierods.com

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But the tip where there is usually all the breaks
> IMHO, I feel should be protected more so I usually
> start with the first guide - light stuff- at 3 -4
> ". from tip top.


I think the tip section gets crowded more than it needs to be, tip breakage usually comes from stupidity IMO. On every rod I've built, the tip pretty much straightens out during fish fighting and the load is placedfurther back towards the center of the rod. Casting more weight than the rod is rated for isn't good for it but the only two I've broken was when the tip got caught under the landing net that I stepped and I had a 4wt Sage upright and I reached up and pulled the fly down too far towards me - snap!

STATIC TESTING ALSO HELPS TO DETERMINE THIS along with test casting and movement of guides

Nothing is written in stone. All blanks act and perform differently

These are fishing rods- blanks that are made to though a certain weight of line or lure.

Not a rocket ship going to Mars

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2011 05:04PM by bill boettcher.

static testing and test casting are, in my opinion, the best ways to lay out your guides.