Hey guys, I had a gentleman contact me about building him a 9ft 9wt. fly rod for salmon fishing in Michigan. I have a lot of questions. If I build on the Sage blank is the guarantee unconditional? In other words can they refuse to warranty the blank because of something I did wrong during the build? What if it's his fault(let's pretend he says its not), can they refuse to replace the blank? What happens to the components can I remove them? If they replace the blank I'm I responsible for supplying a new reelseat and grip at no extra charge? Let's say I made $125.00 on the build and I was responsible for a $50.00 dollar reelseat and $20.00 worth of cork(not to mention labor for the handle) One reason I'm asking this many questions is because this guy wants a custom rod(handle fit, guide placement, ect.), and the blank alone costs $263.00. Couple this with $40.00 for REC guides, $20.00 for decent cork rings, $50.00 for Struble reelseat, rod finish, thread, and epoxy to glue everything up and you can see where I'm going with all this. That's around $400.00 total before labor. Consider @%&# has the same finished rod for $525.00 with warranty. I ask the guy if he was a Sage snob and he said no, he just needed something extra tough for the salmon. I mentioned Batson and Lamiglass among others, but he had never heard of them. Not knocking Sage, their reputation is one of the best in the business. But could I not make my self more money and save him cash by choosing a blank manufacturer that doesn't offer finished rods. I really want to make a little money on the side while learning this craft. I don't however want to lose money. I work on commission at a body shop and know all to well the feeling of losing money on a job. One last thing, how do you guys charge? Set amount for labor plus parts? 25% mark up on parts as well? What do you guys think about 25% on parts, then set price for building cork grip, installing grip, installing reelseat, static testing, wrapping guides, and extra for thread art? Any suggestions for dollar amount of profit(no extra thread art, but custom built grip, static guide placement, wraps with simple trim bands). Sorry for the long post.

Sage would be the best place to ask about the Sage warranty.

If this gentleman has already decided he wants a Sage (they do have an excellent reputation but it's not for "toughness") then by steering him to something else you may only be opening yourself up for his displeasure if what you recommend and then build does not particularly suit him. If you stick with Sage, he can't fault you for anything he decides he doesn't like in the blank.

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Tom, thanx for the fast response. He told me that he needed a stout rod, then mentioned Sage as being the only rod he had used up in Michigan. He didn't say if he used any other brand locally(he lives near me, I live near Boone, NC). I agree that its probably best to stay with Sage, although I'm sure any decent brand blank is ''strong enough'' in the appropriate weight. My major concern is I don't want to lose money in the long run on this build. Would it be possible to remove the reelseat if needed by placing it in boiling water? Any fellow builders had to *eat components* due to broken rods? By the way I'm going to IRBE. Any ideas if there will be any good deals on blanks, components, or epoxy? Anybody be there with Sage blanks a discounted price? I would like to get started, but he don't need it 'till spring. I have some home project builds I could work on until the show. Thanks again for all the info this site and its members share.

You'll be completely overwhelmed at the amount of product, and some of the prices, at the Expo. With just 4-1/2 weeks to the event, it might pay you to talk to a few of the vendors or other rod builders before buying anything just yet. I think you'll leave with a much better idea of the entire process and what is possible or even likely.

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As always sound advice, thanx Tom. I'll try to attend both days. Which day is best? I'm guessing Sat. for instruction and volume of people. Sunday for prices especially near closing time? Been to other trade shows and the best deals are usually last minute on the last day. Does that apply here?

Yes, but it's a gamble - by waiting you risk a vendor being sold out of the very item you had hoped to get at a steal. Frankly, everything there is deal one way or the other, starting right at the outset on Saturday morning.

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I can reply as a customer who purchased a custom Sage Z-axis last year and what I was told by the builder-

Sage charges a fee to replace a broken rod or blank. I believe it is $50. The builder I bought it from told me that I would be responsible for that fee, and $10 to ship the rod back to me. He would be responsible for all of the other costs associated with rebuilding the blank as required, and with the interaction with the Sage Company. That seemed more than fair. I do not know if that is standard practice or not, but it's an excellent business/service practice. It actually was that rod, and the process of ordering (I was given a choice of guides, thread colors and reelseat), that got me interested in building rods for myself.

For the original poster-if your customer wants a Sage rod, you should build him one. After all, they do build excellent fly rods. If he's willing to pay for the name, and you want to be in the business, why would you discourage your customer? He wants a custom rod with high end components. That's what you as the builder want to see, isn't it?

It sounds like he wants a refined, high end fly rod. That's why he's coming to you. If he just wants a tough rod to fish for Salmon, tell him to buy a TFO TiCroX and save $300+.

Drew

Thanx Drew. I guess I need to contact Sage and get the rundown on their warranty. Great products and outstanding customer service that's what I'm going for.

Great advice from Tom!! Last year was my first time at IRBE and I had never built a rod-what an eye opener!! Since then I have finished 12! I would recommend attending as many of the seminars as possible and if you see something you want -buy it as it may not be available when you return. More product than one can imagine along with great talent that many are willing to share.

Dean,
I am trying to follow your chain of thought and reasoning for your comments. You mention the factory rod at $525. Are you trying to do it for the same or less than the factory build? A method for pricing is to take the total cost and X2.

No, I'm not worried about building for less than the factory rod. I just want to make sure I'm making enough to cover my end of the warranty. If he breaks the rod and I only charged $125.00 labor for the original build, I wouldn't be making much money if I had $50 in a new reelseat and $20 in cork(no to mention labor for making the handle). I'm not sure he would be thrilled about an $800.00($400.00x2) Sage fly rod that he could by new with lifetime warranty for $525.00. Don't get me wrong I'm thrilled he's comfortable enough with my work to have me build on a high end blank. I'm also excited to build with such quality products. Especially American? made products.

I agree as I would probably charge 600 for that rod, but what I am getting at is that you should not have the mindset that they will buy a factory rod for 525. You are building this rod for a gentleman and he knows that it will be more than a factory rod because it is custom. Custom to him. Personalized and built to his desires. Thats awesome that you got the order. Now, get the price where you will make some money and you should be ok. In answer to your original question, you can reuse the guides and maybe the seat, but the grip thread chemicals and labor will not be replaced. They can denie the warranty if builder error occurs (wrapping guides too tight can crush the blank).

Good luck!
Kevin

Set things up with the customer.

If the blank breaks - Your work is guaranteed-but it was not your work that caused the blank to break ??
You get another blank .What about stripping the old rod, labor ??

Bill - willierods.com

You nailed it Bill. Thanx for your insight Kevin. That was exactly what I was wondering about wrapping to tight. Everything I have is homemade, i.e. epoxy mixer made from coat hanger wire and microwave motor, the dryer is made from bbq motor, and the wrapper built from shelving board. My thread tensioners are made from bolts with washers,springs, and wing nuts. Should I buy some commercial thread tensioners? If so where can I buy them, which are best? Can anyone describe the feel of the correct amount of tension?

Yea
After wrapped you should be able to move the guides - with moderate pressure - Not easy yet not brute force If that says anything ??

Bill - willierods.com