Looking at this pic of the two guides back to back would there be any advantage to adding another thrid guide right behind that one? what would happen if you did. [www.rodbuilding.org]

Why not try it for yourself and see?? Best way to learn is to try new things on your own..

Yes it would work, but it won’t buy you anything. In fact, the double guide set up won’t really buy you anything beyond that of a well set up NGC system lay out. That’s why I didn’t continue to pursue much further back then. But you can always try it for yourself to satisfy your own curiosity.

We have reached a point where guides, and guide sizing and placement systems, are getting harder and harder to improve upon.


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This is what you would have : [rodbuilding.org]

Then why all the hype about the Microwave system ??

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2010 11:03AM by bill boettcher.

The Doug Hannon theory was tested and discussed in another site and apparently it works .......... at least for the guy testing the theory ........ I think I even saw some video .......

Bill,

Because the fishing tackle industry is highly competitive. Those who don't continually put something new out there are apt to find themselves yesterday's news. Those companies that offer new products and innovations each year are the ones that tend to stay in the limelight and remain profitable.

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Richard,

Of course it works. The question I think Bill was broaching, was does it work better than anything else already out there. The guy that you say tested it, what did he test and compare it against? As I've said many times, how much of an improvement you realize depends on where you're starting from and what you're comparing to.


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Mark,
There is a much much simpler solution.
It is called using a larger first guide that is further away from the reel.
Simple and easy.

If you push your first guide about 8-10 inches down the rod, much of the line oscillation that is pictured, will be already damped out by the time that it hits the guide. Also, rather than using a size 20 guide, use a size 25 or 30 guide and the line oscilllations will be controlled without resorting to extreme things.

Interesting, but not necessary.

Roger

Roger,

Actually, if you do that you're going to find that the line tends to slap the rod blank. Larger ringed guides don't increase distance nor control line better. Just the opposite.

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Tom makes sense on that one. I would think a smaller guide closer to the reel would tend to straighten the line quicker

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,
I can see it either way.
I think that the reason for the question - was Not whether the line would straighten quicker, but - rather - which rod would cast line further.

I really don't know if there is any advantage to casting distance if the line loops are pulled down more quickly or not. If there is an issue with line slap, the use of taller guides would eliminate the problem.

I would think that from a physics standpoint, the use of anything that actually touches the line and changes its flight would contribute drag and have a slowing effect on the shooting line.

I don't know - from a physics standpoint - if there is any need to stop the line loops on the line that is being cast.

Roger

As for touching the ring that is why I would have my path go though the ring and not lay on top of the ring. I always felt when the line came off the spool and gravity pulled it down , the path over the ring would make the line rub on the -as guides are down - the bottom of the ring even more Got to ply with the M guides more

Bill - willierods.com

You don't need to involve a discussion of physics theory - there are so many variables that the best way to learn is to just rig up different set ups and go out and cast them. None of the various physics principles are wrong (they can't be) but you have to apply the right ones and apply them correctly. We had rods at the Expo competition that were set up on valid physics principles, and yet they cast quite poorly compared to other set ups that took a different approach where physics were concerned. The way to learn on this subject is to try the various systems and once you find the one that casts the very best, then figure out what physics principles allow it to do so well. Speculation, even bound on sound principle, is all well and good, but it's not hard to learn what variables really do affect casting distance.

Consider the lowly spincasting reel - the very best casting performance you can obtain comes from these reels (if they were made with larger spool capacities they would almost certainly win any competition). On the day after the Expo last year, a very interested party who was helping me with the Expo and had witnessed the casting competition, brought a Zebo 33 and a fairly inexpensive 6'6" rod out to the course and tossed the exact same plug we used in the competition 166 feet. He blistered everyone who had competed in the competition the day before. The question isn't if they can cast well, but rather, why do they cast so well?

The same thing applies to these discussions on the various guide set ups - you can speculate all you want but at the end of the day the only way to know is to rig up the various set ups and go out and cast them.

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Tom,
Well said.
I couldn't agree more.

Roger

It may also prove to be advisable when measuring casting distances to lick you finger, stick it up in the air and determine which way the wind is blowing.

As Tom mentioned the spin/cast reels cast very well.

Soo why not try to simulate this. The cover acts like a guide ring. The line comes off the spool and the pig tails rub the inside of the cover and then are pulled out the small ring.

So trying a guide 3/4ers of the size of a regular spinning reel face plate- larger or smaller - but a lot closer 8 - 5" and having the line path in the center on the ring - acting as the cover, Then another guide right after maybe an inch, varying distance. of that guide say a 10 -8 ring.

What one would try to do is simulate the cover of the spin/cast reel .

Bill - willierods.com