I was reading some older post on the bumper system and I have a question that I was hoping someone could shed some light for me. I have read Bill's article several times and understand the setup idea. My question is this. When I do the the 90° guide, the intersection point of the line and the blank seems to move under a load, putting a bit of downward pressure on the guide. I was reading about this, and that this shouldn't happen, but couldn't find the solution. I am suspecting the original placement of the guides. Does the 0° guide distance from the reel create this? Can it be the distance for the 0° guide to the first 180° guide? What have you seen that could point me in a direction to look at? Can I eliminate the down pressure of the 90° guide completely?
Rob

Boston, MA

You overlooked one small part of the article near the end - it states that on blanks which flex very deeply into the butt section, you may opt to position the bumper guide at from 100 to 110 degrees which will negate any downward pressure on the guide.

There is another solution as well - use a larger ring for the bumper guide. Just bend the frame so that it continues to sit as low and close to the blank as possible.


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Yes, I did move the bumper guide to 100-110° , it eliminated some more pressure, but didn't completely, I will try a bigger guide. My understanding is that any pressure should be only keeping the line off the blank. Is it normal to see the line coming into the 0° guide to one side of it?

Boston, MA

Some even move that guide a bit to get the line in the middle of it. You would also have to look where the line is on the reel. I try to make sure the line is coming from the center of the spool on the reel.

Mike which guide do they move? The 0° guide? or the bumper guide?

Boston, MA

The 0 degree guide. I have seen them moved 5-10 degrees.

I go as much as 18 degrees on the first, depending on the reel. Levelwinds you can get away with much more degrees. Just make sure that it loads the reel evenly before finishing it. Going too far can effect casting though, but for trolling rods, this isn't a concern. Just let the line straight out of the reel (center of spool), directly to the first 180. Then add your transition guides as to not upset the line path.

I have a couple that I use 2 transition guides. This fixes the issue. But then it is no longer a simple spiral with a bumper guide.

Kyle Robinson

Rob,

How far apart are your 0 and first 180 degree guides?

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Tom,
The distance from the 0 to the first 180 is 11 inches. I believe I have the bumper set correctly now. I need to move it more toward the 110° position. What I don't like is the way the line is coming into the 0° guide. I think the problem maybe the distance of the 0° guide from the reel, which is 23 inches. I am stuck with this position as this is a rod that is being converted from a regular wrap to a spiral wrap and the first guide is in that location.

Here are some pictures.
[www.rodbuilding.org]

I really need to get my butt to the expo. Hopefully I can swing the cost next year.

Boston, MA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2010 06:01PM by Rob Savino.

Why does that butt guide HAVE TO stay at that spot Move it and try some more casts. I always got nervous when the guides get more then 10" apart. Maybe just me. I always put a tip on butt guide then run line trying to see the straightest line path. Then I work from there.

Bill - willierods.com

The line is going to ride to the side of the zero guide but I think you can better.

I'd suggest making the distance from the zero and 180 guide a little greater and (especially) using the lowest frame guide you can for a bumper. A fly rod guide is perfect. I'd start with one size larger than the 180 guides which should all be the same size. I can't see what the guides are on the bottom but you don't want them to get progressily larger as you move back to the butt of the rod. You could even make the first 180 guide one size smaller than the rest.

It wouldn't hurt if the first guide was a lower frame type but a different bumper guide would make a lot of difference.

The distance from the 0 to the first 180 should be okay, but shorter is better than longer. You don't want the Bumper guide to be part of the normal guide spacing - it's an addition. Too much space between the 0 and first 180 guide will make the Bumper a traditional load carrying guide and will indeed put side pressure on it.

Having the butt guide 23 inches from the reel is a bit far, but if that's what you've got to work with, then that's what you've got to work with. The line will always come into the butt guide along the side of the ring towards the side you've spiraled to. The distance from the reel to the butt guide won't change that.

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"Why does that butt guide HAVE TO stay at that spot Move it and try some more casts. I always got nervous when the guides get more then 10" apart. Maybe just me. I always put a tip on butt guide then run line trying to see the straightest line path. Then I work from there.

Bill - Willie Rods"

I have to follow the existing guide locations from when the rod was built before the spiral. I don't want to get into painting the blank, I just want to replace the guides and add the bumper.
Three of my fishing charter customers want to have their rods spiral wrapped after using mine last year on the boat. Since their guides on the rods needed replacing, they asked be to put a spiral wrap on them. New spiral converts.

Boston, MA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2010 08:38PM by Rob Savino.

> The line will always come into the butt guide
> along the side of the ring towards the side you've
> spiraled to. The distance from the reel to the
> butt guide won't change that.
Tom
Then is it safe to say that it's better to spiral left for a right handed angler and right for a left handed angler, because it easier to push the line on the reel then trying to pull it back when reeling? Unless they are using a level wind reel.


Thanks all for the help.

Boston, MA

Yes, that's always a good idea.

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I usually move the bumper guide back towards the stripper guide so that at full load, the line is pushing the guide directly back into the blank, or where the single foot goes to the frame. This way there is no loading. Other times I will rotate the bumper to 100 or 110 degrees if it just needs a little tweak or use a 16mm guide to achieve the no load situation. I do my spirals differently; I use a LRSG 25mm (usually on heavier rods, 20mm Alconite Low Rider on Inshore rods) just past the foregrip to keep the foregrip and your hand from getting cut. Then I put the guides on the bottom of the rod, string it up and mark where the line intersects the blank at 90 degrees. Thats where I start the bumper guide, and see if I need to tweak it to 100 or 110 degrees, need a larger size, or move it back a bit so that it doesn't load. My transition is pretty quick usually and I haven't had any problems casting or retrieving. On longer blanks with less flex towards the butt, I will sometimes use a 2 guide transition.

Rob: you can always cut the butt guide off - carefully - and keep it in the same location but move it over a bit. Try putting a load on the rod and see where the line rests on the guides. Should lay in the center closest to the blank.

Bill - willierods.com