I would like to know how you are holding the butt of the rod when CCS'ing a rod or blank. I measured a complete rod recently and it just has to be way off. It is a 9'6" seven weight fly rod, the ERN was 6.5, and it casts like an eight weight. If anyone has photos on Rodbuilding.org maybe you can post a link. This looks great, [northforkcomposites.com] but I don't have that much room in my shop.

A rod with an ERN of 6.5 will certainly cast an 8-weight line. In fact, it will cast any weight line, just as any rod will. It all depends on how much of that line you're talking about.

If you read the article, you saw how to set the butt under some books and shim the front with a few cents or whatever. You want to support it at a forward point about 12 inches beyond the butt.

There are more elaborate methods for affixing rods for flexing purposes, but what was shown in the article will get you by in a pinch. That was part of the goal Dr. Hanneman had in mind when he developed the system - you wouldn't need any special equipment in order to take the measurements.

Do make sure you are obtaining the required deflection. It's not 1/3 of the rod, it's a distance equal to 1/3rd of the rod's total length. There is a big difference between the two.

..................

The rod casts like an eight weight, meaning it will aerialize over thirty feet of 8wt line. It just doesn't seem very scientific to use books to hold the grip down and support the rod about so many inches from the butt. The results should be repeatable if the jig holding the rod does not flex or change dimension. Say for fly rods the grip is 7" and the reelseat is 4" so support the rod at 12" from the but end on every rod. Do the same with a blank. Actually just "talking" about it gives me some good ideas. Back to the shop (garage). I don't know, what is the difference between 1/3 the length and 1/3 the total length? I measured the rod before CCSing it, it was 9'7" not 9'6" as advertised.

For my setup, I use a 12" length of 2" PVC pipe mounted horizontally (parallel with the floor) with clamps that allow me to rotate the pipe. Put the rod or blank in to the back (left) of the tube and rotate it until the butt is level (I use a level). When in use, the end of the butt is touching the top of the pipe while the 12" mark is at the bottom of the pipe.

As I'm reading this I'm guessing that no one else can understand what I mean. I will either come up with another 922 words to paint the picture or take a photo in the morning and post it to the photo page.


Walt

Walt Natzke
Ripon, CA

A picture is worth a 1000 words. That is less then your 922. LOL

Bill - willierods.com

The rod doesn't know what's holding it. If you do a good job with the books, the results will be accurate. Of course, if you plan to take many measurements on subsequent blanks, you will benefit from having a more solid and purpose suited holding fixture.

Many have misunderstood the deflection distance and thought it meant only flexing the blank along 1/3rd of its length. The required deflection distance, however, is an amount that is equal to 1/3rd of the blank's total length. In your case, you need to defect the blank downward a distance of 38-3/8th inches. If you do this the blank will be deflected far back into the butt area.

.................



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2010 09:40AM by Tom Kirkman.

Greg:
How about some thing like this: [www.rodbuilding.org]

Bill - willierods.com

Tom,

you stated that "the required deflection distance is an amount that is equal to 1/3rd of the blank's total length". To clarify, is that length the length of the unsupported portion of the blank?

I ask because the rod length of 9'7" equates to 115" (assuming I drank enough coffee), and 1/3 of that equals 38.333... inches (see previous assumption)

Thanks,
Rick

Richard,

You're correct at 38-3/8th inches. I got wound up with all those 3's and wrote it down incorrectly.

Yes, it's a third of the total length. Thanks for noticing my mistake. That's all we'd need to further confuse the issue. I'll edit the original now just to make sure it doesn't confuse anyone.

....................

By the way, those of you who make it to the Expo can see the new fixture we made for holding rods on the CCS board. You can make it for about $5 with parts from your local hardware store or scrap yard. Very sturdy.

...................

I weighted the tip top until the tip was 38 1/4" below the butt, I think there must have been some movement in the way the grip was held to alloy fewer pennies to move the tip the prescribed amount. I'm working on a new jig. I like Walt's pvc idea, very simple. Bill's device is very elegant.

Boy, would I like to be able to go to the show. Too much of a stretch for me now, though, I'm on the left coast.

Well, you have that part correct. Your measurement may well be on the money.

............

Tom, that's true. I might get the same numbers again. It isn't very scientific to be chasing a preconceived result.

Okay, I built a new, really sturdy CCS jig. 12" between supports. This time the Rainshadow 9'6" seven weight measured ERN=8.4. I must have really goofed to get the first result. This blank is discontinued but I like it, good steelhead rod, and I have four more blanks stashed.

Okay, that makes a good deal of sense.

Nice support, easy to adjust for level and seems very sturdy. Great work.

..........

I concur, great work. I may have to retire my PVC pipe and make one like that.
Those components are a lot easier to find than the eccentrics on Bill's fixture! :-)

Walt Natzke
Ripon, CA

Greg,

I'm stealing that design and building a second testing area.

Jon

Whatever happened to supporting the blank at 10% of the overall length????

Jim, I wasn't aware of that discussion regarding support at 10%. Bill Hanneman's instructions say "firmly secure the rod handle...shim the front of the handle until the first foot of the rod is horizontal". There is no instruction to determine the distance between supports. I figured supporting the blank would be firmer than supporting the grip.

Greg,
There was further clarification in the CCS info site at left. See the CCS Quick Tips section. Also see TK’s quote below. It was also in RodMaker Vol 12-Issue 4 page 29. Anything other than 10% can skew measurements significantly even though the blank is relatively stiff toward the butt. The type of handle/grip can also affect measurements compared to a bare blank.

Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 19, 2009 05:36PM

If you want results that are relative across the board, support the rod at a point which is roughly 10% of it's finished length. No farther. Use a deflection distance which is 1/3rd of its overall length. That result is relative and comparative across the board.

In that case I guess Walt's pvc pipe section would be better with the pvc supporting the rod or blank at the 10% mark. Looking at North Fork's, the link in my first post, they have a peg hole every inch on the horizontal axis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2010 03:40PM by Greg Foy.