I have used Flex Coat, Threadmaster, Pac Bay, and U-40 LS Supreme rod finishes. Of these, I find Flex Coat the lowest odor. Are there any others out there that are equal or better? My shop is a little small, so keeping the smells down is always nice.

Thanks - Marc

Marc,
With all of the chemicals, glues and finishes that we use, there is a certain degree of toxicity.

It is to all of our better health to insure that we have frequent air exchange in our shops. Whether it is a heat exchange, a vent fan, or some other means. Excellent ventilation will lead to better overall health, as well as feeling better all of the time.

For example, a very simple thing to do, is to simply crack a window a bit, and then on the other side of the shop, or even in another room - if there is another room, have an outside vent fan. This will allow fresh air to be brought constantlyinto the shop.

Even in the middle of winter in the north, this is not a bad practice. Just use good sense in how far to open the window to aid in getting outside air - exchanged with inside stale air.

Take care
Roger

p.s.
On occasion, I will have a need to use some rather toxic chemicals such as acetone or xylene.
Both of these chemicals are extremely toxic and need to be used with the very best of ventilation.
Typically, whenever I have to use these chemicals for some purpose, I open windows on both sides of the shop to get good cross ventilation - even in the middle of the winter.

Often, I will use paper towels for either cleaning, cleanup etc. so that there is some residue of the chemicals left in the towels, or other cleaning items.

If this happens, I make a point of emptying the trash, so that any of the toxic fumes that might be left in the paper towels, are removed from the shop environment as quickly as possible.

Of course, the very best of things is to use no items which have any degree of toxicity. But unfortunately, in this business, there are going to be some things which have a small or large degree of air borne danger and need to be treated accordingly.

As you pointed out in your original post - any items which emit fewer or less toxic fumes is to everyones better health and longivity.

Take care
Roger

None of the epoxies emit any type of solvent odor or smell so I'm not sure what you're referring to. There shouldn't be any outgassing of a solvent. If you stick your nose right in the bottle you may pick up a hint of the amine smell. That's about it. None of them "emit fumes."

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Well i wasnt going to say anything, because i happen to like the smell. Whether or not it is good for you i dont know, my guess is not. But it most definitely smells, my wife complains about it constantly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2010 08:37AM by Phil Brenner.

I can tell a definite smell of some rod finishes, compared to almost none on others. Tom - I can't recall the last time your advice was not correct, so I don't doubt it, it may be the different amine smells?

The finishes you mention are all pretty mild with respect to odors. I agree that when I use threadmaster, I don't get odor at all. Neither do I smell anything with FC lite. I use LS Supreme occasionally but don't recall any odor there either. Rod bond and the other adhesive epoxies have a stronger amine smell than the finishes do.

Roger gives good advice with respect to acetone and xylene. Use a mask rated for VOC's as well as the ventilation suggestions.

Terry

The hardener will have the smell of the amines in it, but that's about it. These epoxies are 100% solids so you don't have the solvent outgassing that you would on something like a lacquer, urethane, varnish, etc. There are no "fumes."

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I smell a skunk when I use 15 min gel and Devcon 5 minute. Is that the amine smell you're referring to?

Yes. But even then it shouldn't be a strong odor unless you just happen to have a very refined sense of smell. Nothing is evaporating into the air from an epoxy.

On the other hand, open a jar of PermaGloss for a couple minutes and your whole house will smell of harsh solvent.

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Permagloss Ah The smell My daughter says that it smells like ripe bananas to her, Me it just smells

I have a highly refined sense of smell. So refined, in fact, that many perfumes and colognes/after shaves make me sick to the point of vomiting.
I don't like the smell of two-part epoxies (the glues, not the finishes), My shop is actually on my screened porch, so odors dissipate almost immediately. Were I to have a conventional indoor shop, I would most definitely have an exhaust fan or three set up.

Marc,
Here is an interesting article on epoxy - use, history as well as the slight health risk.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Take care
Roger

Not to argue about the solids vs. fumes thing.....BUT...if you can smell it.....SOME particle is leaving the bottle, mixed finish, etc. and making its way through the atmosphere. One of the first things we learned in HazMat Ops was if you can smell it your already exposed. Of course, in our instance the slight amine smell isnt a huge issue. Just keep in mind that you can become allergic to almost any item in the environment. The more you are exposed to something the greater chance you have of becoming sensitized to it....I know we have a few guys that post here with issues with rod finish. If you are concerned get yourself a tyvek suit and a good respirator....splash and respiratory protection would be more than adequate for the stuff we are using (well....overkill really...but hey...why not)

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

My take:

The epoxy's are not totally solids, if they were there would be no liquid. There is some solvents in them, maybe not a lot in comparison to the auto paints mentioned, but there is some and it's very mild.

I have a small rod room and routinely shut the door closing off the room once I have a coat of finish on a rod. When I enter the room an hour or so later the smell is surely there in a large way, and so are the solvents in the air that the scent carry's.

Having worked in the auto paint field for many years, I know solvents when I smell them. I was in my buddy's paint and body shop today getting some dry pigments (the only true no solvent) and the smell is not that much unlike my rod room with the door shut for an hour, only his stuff is much stronger.

Try taking a sticky backed fish decal, wiping finish on the sticky side side real well, let is sit a little bit then wipe off the finish, you'll find that the solvent in the finish removed the stick off the back of the decal. Do the same with grease, oil, whatever you like. There's not enough solvent in finish to "cut" the hard stuff but it will break loose mild things like light adhesives. Also finish will remove and break down permanent magic marker, it take a little bit of time for it to work, but it will break it down. Take a ground and polished or silver framed guide, use the black marker to "paint" the guide foot, let the marker dry. Now put finish over the guide foot, let it sit a bit and give the solvents time to work, now take a toothpick and rub the guide foot, you'll see the black come off on the light colored toothpick.

Not trying to argue here one bit, just want everyone to know that thread finish does indeed carry solvents, just mild ones and very little of it.

DR

Oders and Hazards are entirely different subjects:

Hydrogen sulfige in concentrations higher than 20 ppm disable your sense of smell and higher concentrations will kill you almost instantly.

If you seek correct information on the hazards of two part epoxy systems containing amines in the hardner phase it is your responsilility to protect yourself by proper use of available information. The product supplier is obligated by law to send you MSDA and Safety Data Sheets. You are responsilbe to follow the defined procedures to insure your long term health.

Try this for a start. [www.dermnetnz.org]

As an Indoor Air Quality Professional, I can tell you that the only thing that is more subjective than "Rod Sensitivity" is an odor.

There are no solvents in our 100% epoxy adhesives and finishes. Nor are they liquid.

If you open a jar or bottle of 100% solids epoxy, it is not going to harden nor dry out because there is nothing in there to evaporate.

The only epoxies that contain solvents, within most rod builders' use, would be something like Klass-Kote which is actually an epoxy paint. Clemens Crystal Coat was based on this product.

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Marc, I have used U-40 LS Supreme rod finish and ThreadMaster myself. My wife really hates ThreadMaster cause of the smell of it. I too, have noticed a smell to it one I have applied it to a rod but it really doesn't last. I don't think the smell is that bad and it is not too strong ethier.

I agree Jim - TM has it's own odor for sure. Good Old Flex Coat seems to be the lowest odor to me.