I need a bottom rod for grouper and snapper fishing. I’ll be fishing the south east coast of Florida and Gulf of Mexico. Generally the fish aren’t all that big but occasionally amberjack show up. I’ll probably fish 50-60# test. The hard part is I’ll need to use a lot of lead. Most of the time (I hope) it will be in the 4 to 8 ounce range but I may have to use upwards of a pound on rare occasions.

What makes it a difficult choice for me is I’d like the blank to be as light in weight as possible and offer good sensitivity. Sometimes the boats drift over reefs in the 150-foot range. You try to hold bottom and it is tough to discern a mutton snapper nibble from the sinker bouncing off structure. The tip of the rod has to be stiff enough that when you go to set the hook the tip doesn’t go mush and fail to move the necessary line to get a solid hook up.

The St. Croix 2M69XHF looks attractive. In general I like their blanks a lot. I’ve had a blast the last couple of weeks fishing their 2SW70MF for dolphin and kingfish with a Saros 3000F. I’d like to put together a similar overachieving setup for a bottom rod. Diawa Saltist and Penn Baja special are likely candidates for the reel.

So ideally a blank weight under 6 ounces, around $100 maximum, and around 7 foot. All advice is appreciated.


Russ
P.S. Bait could be anything from dead ballyhoo to a live yellowtail snapper.

Russ,

We do a lot of bottom bouncing here, but typically we use shorter rods in Oz than is preferred by fishermen in the US.
I suggest you look at the Batson IMU66MH-TC or IMU69XH-TC. They seem like they will fit your criteria.
I haven't used one though, so an email to Batsons might be beneficial.
You might also look at the RCLB70 range. The E-Glass tip is handy on those straight up and down fights. The weight may be slightly over your stated preference though.
I have an RCLB80M that I have used in similar circumstances on Red Emporer using whole pilchards. It's too long for a bottom rod (IMHO), but it certainly has the guts to skull drag big fish away from the reef before they brick you.

You don't say what sort of terminal rig you run, but I would recommend a paternoster rig using circle hooks.
This will keep your hook/bait clear of the structure and the circle hooks almost always jaw hook the fish which reduces bust-offs and makes release easier.
Takes a while to learn not to strike at the bite with the circle though. Steady pressure is all thats needed so the hook can rotate and catch the jaw.

cheers,
Owen

Hey Owen,

I'll take a look at the IMU series. I like the value in the Baston line. I have the rclb80xl (nice 15# class spanish mac rod) and 70ml. I like them a lot but feel the live bait rods have too soft a tip for this application.

Typically we will fish a standard fish finder rig with a very long leader. The idea is to have the live bait close enough to the bottom to entice Mr. Grouper but far enough away to get him hooked up before he gets back to his cave. The battle is basically all over in the first few feet. If the boat is anchored up sometimes I switch to a three way swivel and tie the sinker on with lighter line so it will break away if snagged on the rocks.

I do like a shorter rod but no longer have my own boat. A bit longer rod comes in handy when you have to weave your way around others and such on the head boats.

Seeker Hercules INS72H will fit the bill for what you are looking for. YOu can see the specs here: [northeastrodbuilders.com] I have the blanks in stock in Grey, Blue, and 1 more in Reddish Brown Super seeker color. BOth Mudhole and @#$%& have these blanks in stock in GRey color.

I recieved an e-mail from a guy who purchased this blank from me in April, here is what he sent to me:

"The grouper fishing is closing here in NC on this Friday, Jan 1st. In regards to my purchase of the Hercules XL Inshore Heavy (INS 72H), as noted in the previous emails noted below, I would like to give you some feedback based on 18 grouper trips between mid august 2009 and yesterday landing 234 grouper. ALL ON THE XL INSHORE HEAVY! (FYI - I cut the blank from the butt to achieve a build length of 6' 6")

The rod is awesome. I am completely satisfied with the performance in every way. It has enough sensitivity to feel those finicky grouper bites and enough back bone to yank their fat butt out of a rock.

The Action - Cutting the rod down to 6' 6" did not make the blank parabolic. It had more of a "moderate" action and shut off ahead of the fore grip. This action was surprising to me as I was able to stand and hold the rod in a normal relaxed position yet still apply pressure with out becoming fatigued. Also - when a grouper dove for the rocks, I could stop his ass cold. I think a parabolic rod would have bent enough to allow fish to "rock me up". Can't give grouper not one inch of line!!!!

Durability - I literally abused this rod. Swinging fish in the boat, bending the heck out of it when I got hung up, etc. The rod finish, line guides, and grips, are all cracked, beaten, and falling apart yet the blank is stellar!!! (Alps tri reel seat, fuji SIN guides, EVA fore grip, Riley Rod carbon foam core rear grip). I will rebuild it this winter and use the same blank!!!!

Limitations - I found the limit of this blank IMHO. Although, I have landed quite a few grouper above 20lbs, I believe that this blank is "the one" for all grouper/snapper up to 20lbs and utilizing up to 20lbs of drag. I used up to 30lbs of drag on this rod, but I dropped the rod tip and let the fish pull drag straight from the spool with this amount of pressure. This rod can take some serious heat!!!

"

Billy, the blanks you have had brought to market are a great service to all of us east coast party boat fishermen.

IIRC you have fished the dry tortugas area. I seem to recall you saying you liked 50# line for muttons. Muttons top out around 20 pounds. Baits are generally ballyhoo size. Water depth is generally under 150'. I don't know if you caught any grouper but they are typically two to three times the size of the muttons and like to take you into the rocks. Depths as well as the size of the baits are much greater.

I have never fished NC but 20 pound groupers are smaller than what I'd like to target. I might be dreaming but I'd hope for ones more in the 40-60 pound range. Given that should I be looking at something closer to the 70H?

I'd personally look at the 60H if you afford losing the foot off the rod. Reason being is that you'll have less of a leverage disadvantage with a shorter rod, although with teh way the hercules rods bend, that may not end up presenting a problem under heavy drag.

The St croix 2m69xhf is a WONDERFUL blank and will handle grouper up to about 20-25# (snapper up to ~30#), but if you are looking at specifically targetting 40-60# fish, you'll be far undergunned. I have one sitting here which is spectacularly light (and broken due to someone cranking the drag down when I asked them to leave it alone.) This one does have a stiffer tip than the hercules blank will, but I couldn't comfortably fish more than 20# of drag or so off the tip of the rod (not the reel).

The other thing is, if you do plan on using the hercules blank, the tip won't be as stiff, however the simple fix is reel down until you feel the weight of the fish and lift. Solid hookset every time, with or without circle hooks (required in GOM)

Glad to hear from you Sean. Ideally I would like something near as light as the Croix and with the stiff tip. I'd also like the ruggedness of the Seeker. I'm not sure such an animal can be had. Croix does make an even heavier blank but it is more $$ and longer.

Perhaps the best route is two rods. Build the Croix and hang something like a saltist on it with 60# braid and 40 mono top shot. Then get a seeker/calstar and break out the old 6/0 for the big boys.

I didn't realize you were looking for bigger GRouper, all the ones we caught when I was there were in teh 15# class, with a couple hitting 30-40# (I didn't catch these). For that size fish the INS 72H is fine. FOr larger Grouper....I can't say, since I never caught them. All I can do is point you to a photo of a 60H cut to 5'8 with 32#s of drag [northeastrodbuilders.com] - this was on a 35# AJ, but he caught 100# Goliaths that day, and 200# the next day.

The 60XH is probably an even better choice though, there is a ton of backbone in that, and the tip is a bit stiffer than teh H. I'm hoping to have these in 7 & 8' at some point.

in general - you cannot compare graphite & composites. The graphite will almost always have a stiffer tip, the composite will always be more durable. What I trid to do with the HErcules is keep the stiffnes and weight of a graphite, but with teh durability of a composite. Even so, the tip is NOT as stiff as a graphite, especially not that St Croix, but the tip is not as soft and mushy as other composites which pretty much have forced us to cut 2-4" off the tip to give us the action we need to properly fish with heavier sinker weights.

Russel,

We'd recommend you check out the new Gorilla blanks, they are just what your looking for:
[www.mudhole.com]

Regards.
Team Mud Hole Custom Tackle
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