I have been using a wind-on swivel lately for my braid to topshot connection on rods used for trolling (not casting). I use 20-30 pound line and the tiny Spro swivels and they seem to go through the guides just swell in both directions on my ugly sticks. BUT now I'm building a couple custom rods for myself and I'm wondering if wind-on swivels might change what I do w/ the guides, both in size toward the tip and in ring material. There doesn't appear to be anything on this in the archives.

Any thoughts?

Brian,
Windons will be fine, but Winthrop Tool rollers are even better. They have just come out with a more economical roller that has the same quality, but a smaller price tag. I took some pictures for my website this morning and they are not downloaded yet. The picture is of the winthrop express roller with a PENCIL stuck thru the hole with the roller!!!

They are the bomb.

If you are interested in them, email me. I am a distributor for Winthrop.

KEvin

We use the Spro #4 swivels on our wire-line trolling rods all the time here in New Jersey. The wire dictates that we use silicon nitride guides. I have not had any problems with the Spro swivels and the silicon nitride; no chips or grooves. We do use a slightly larger guide, no smaller than 10 for the tip and I often see 12, to ensure the swivels get through okay. I have not tried roller guides myself with rolling up swivels.

-Dan

Thanks Dan & Kevin.
I think roller guides are WAY overkill on a kayak trolling rod w/ 20 pound line. The minimum size number & ring material is exactly what I'm looking for. I've been using the Spro power swivel size 7 (75 pound test). They're practically as narrow as a knot, just harder.

Do you think SiC rings be too fragile?

Brian - I have not tried SiC with the swivels, so I hesitate to voice an opinion. But with line that light, you might just consider skipping the Spro swivels and use Bimini twist knots. That is what we do with the wind-on leaders that we use for tuna jigging. You put a bimini twist in the end of your main line, and another at the end of your leader (if it doesn't already have a loop, as most wind-ons do), and then use loop them together. The bimini twist knot takes some practice, and you can change leaders very easily if you need to. You don't need to make new knots when you are on the water, unless maybe you break your main line. I think it is easier than the Spro swivels for both braid and mono.

-Dan

And I forgot to point out, that the bimini twist knots and loop to loop connections are stronger than other knots, I think it is essentially a 100% line strength knot. It is a great connection, probably stronger than the Palomars we use for braid or the clinch knots that you use for the Spro swivels.

If you want to stay with ringed guides, eventually you will have a pop out from running back and forth through them. The American Tackle ring lock virtus guides just about eliminate from that and I would head toward that direction with ringed guides.

Using rollers: with that small spro swivel you might be able to get away with simple standard guides, and if not, the HD aftcos will pass it with no issues.

Sorry, I missed the 20lb part! Yes, way overkill. I would say size 10 would be the smallest guide size for the spro.

Kevin

Bag the Spro connection and go with a quality connection knot like the Slim Beauty instead. I’ve gone as small as a size 10 tip on surf rods and they pass a #20- #50 mono connection without a problem. I run #80 braid to #80 mono connection thru a #12 turbo and standard Aftco tip and stripper without a hitch.

wind-on top shots constructed with hollow core spectra are the way to go. Lose the hardware and you can build with any guides you want within reason. If you are capable of building a rod you can build your own windons or top shots. My second choice would be learning some knots like the slim beauty or the worm knot. Again this will eliminate the swivel or at least move it to a point in your system where it does not need to be reeled through the guides.
MM