Parts order arrived late on saturday so I spent sunday morning placing my guides. I did an el-quicky guide wrap job and headed off to the local lake prepared to be impressed. Such was not the case. Distances with a 8' rod were no better (worse I'd say) than what I got with an old 7' penn I had laying around. The rod felt hard to control and backlashed rather easy. This was my first attempt at such a wrap.

I used the bumper method. I placed the guides as I normally would and then rotated them. A static test at that point had me changing a few things and that may be where I went wrong. I was able to increase spacing a little on the guides near the top. My first 180 guide was a 16 and I reduced that down. Basically I slid the next guide up, a 12 down and added another 10. I moved the butt guide a little closer to the reel. I tried both a 10 and an 8 as a bumper guide and kept the 8.

Things I noticed that didn't seem right: The line on the butt guide was resting firmly on the bottom of the guide ring despite the reel being full. The line was low enough over the foregrip I felt compelled to move the butt guide closer to the reel. With the first 180 guide a 16 the line wouldn't contact the guide until loaded past where I'd normally fish so I decreased it to a 12. Despite wrapping the guides on, the top two twisted a lot and I even had one come loose. Perhaps that is a clue.

I'd like to make a spiral work and hoping I just made some silly mistakes. Rod is rclb80xl (8') and guides are (4) 8's, (3) 10"s, a 12 and a 20....with 8 for the bumper. All guides are NBRLVL. Maybe I should build it normal first and see how it casts before I conclude the sprial wrap had anything to do with the results???

The spiral wrap had nothing to do with the poor casting performance. Most likely you don't have the right amount of casting weight for the power in the blank, or vice versa.

While it isn't likely to have had much to do with anything, you're using way too many different sizes of guides. Put all the guides on top and build it as you normally would. Get the guides set so that you get your best distance. Then flip them all to the bottom except for the first one (butt guide). Cast it again and you shouldn't see much if any difference. Then go back and install a bumper guide halfway between the 0 and 180 degree guide. Do not shift any of the other guides around.

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What rod are you using, what is the lure weight listed. The sweet spot is usually in the middle of the weights listed.

It\'s not your guides its your rod blank that does not cast well---that\'s a soft tip live bait blank and it was not really intended for long casting distances. Not sure what your 7 footer is like but your not comparing apples to apples I think. Live bait rods with very limber tips are tough to cast far.

One thing, I would agree with Tom that you have too many guide sizes on your rod. Start with maybe a 16 and then go right to the 8\'s or all 10\'s if you need to clear any sort of knot or swivel. For a bumper guide I would use a 10 bent so that the ring is sitting down close to the blank.

At the risk of being blasphemous, I would venture to say if you had two identical blaks set up properly (conventioal and spiral wrapped) the Spiral wrapped rod may cast as far, but I doubt further.

My I interject this thought. Did you adjust the reel to the weight of the lure an what size reel were you using? In most cases a spiral wrap eliminates rod twist and does not improve casting distance

Good Wraps Bob

The blank doesn't have a stated lure rating. It is a live bait rod but the tip isn't all that soft. I think I was using two ounces. The reel is a penn 525 mag. It is adjustable, from super fast to crazy fast.

I have five 8's and 10's plus enough 12-25 guides (two rods planned). Should I get some more 8's?

Russell what are you fishing for? I have a 525 and can cast it 75 yards without a problem, using 3oz lead sinker. I am short 5'-5" and a hopping 145#'s The rod I use is a med. heavy, 81/2 ft. rod rated at 20 to 30 lbs. Like I said earlier spiral wraps are used to eliminate rod twist. What distance were you looking at to cast and how far can you cast your old rod.

Good Wraps Bob

Russell, Me thinks you are trying to use guides that are too large for the simple spiral. You should only need a 12 or smaller butt guide, a 6 bumper and 6's or smaller for the rest of the rod length. The distance between the butt and first 180 guide should only be 9-10" with the bumper 1/2 way between. The rest of the guides should be (my preference) from the tip, 4 to 4.5, second guide 5 to 5.5 and progressing to the first 180 guide similar to how you would space a spinning rod. All of the guides from the tip to the and including the first 180 guide should be the same size as the tip. I've built all of my simple spiral rods this way, and they cast beautifully. Tom K. has done our homework for us, and if we use his answers, we can pass the test everytime. P.S. once you place a guide on the the bottom of the rod, such as the first 180 guide, it no longer has to be a large guide. From there on to the tip, make all guides the same size as the tip guide ring, no bigger. Give it a try and see if your casting isn't better. Greg

The butt guide is determined by the reel width and height so be mindful of that.

The only thing I would add to what Greg offered is that the smallest guide you can use has to be able to pass your line and any connections. I don't know what those will be but let's assume that's an 8. If so, you can use size 8's all the way along the bottom of the rod. You really only need 2 guide sizes on this rod - the butt guide and then the running guides along the bottom of the rod. All the in-between sizes just aren't necessary and do nothing for you nor the line. As Greg mentioned, if your stuff will pass through the tiptop, then the same ring size should be sufficient for the remainder of the guides as well.

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If you do not have them, get the RodMaker mags with the spiral wrap articles

Okay, looks like I need some more #8's then. Typically I'll use a Bimini twist on the main line (15/17#) with a surgeon's knot to my shock leader (30/40#). Intended use is fly lining live bait and occasionally casting bait to a sighted fish. I’ll be fishing for kingfish, wahoo, dolphin, blackfin, etc.

I have the CD with the spiral wrap articles. I'll look them over again. I didn't recall them suggesting one keep all the underneath guides the same size. I’m going to have to work on changing my idea of how a rod should look and concerns about small guides dissipating heat fast enough.

There is no reason to use a lot of different sized guides - it does nothing for you. Smaller guides, provided they are large enough to pass your required connections, reduce weight which nearly always pays a dividend of some sort, whether it be in balance, sensitivity, line path, etc.

Next time you have a fish on the line and he makes a few strong runs, reach up and touch a guide. How hot does it feel? I think you'll stop worrying about the ability of a guide to dissipate heat quickly.

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Another idea... Go to the search function, type in "spiral wrap", set the time setting to 1 year, and let it search. Start reading/ There is a whole lot of info there. Some of these articles are very helpfull. I also think that it sounds like you are loosing too much energy in your rod blank when casting. I think Tom and Greg are right on the money. I have built spirals, with 12, 10, then 8's on out. They work very well. I am now going to build one with smaller micros. A friend has done this, and it casrs very well. With mono or braid. We do not have a knot issue to deal with.
I like to use the static placement to work back to the choker. I lay out the ckoker, and butt guide with the new concept method for placement. Then I start to transition the guides, and maybe adjust as they seem to need it. Depends on the rod blank.
Good luck!

if you have to pass the surgeons knot, a double-line 17# to 30# would pass A LOT nicer through a 10, I would stay with the 10s. If the 8s work ok for you however stay with them.

16 or 12, then 10s on out, for the bumper guide, I'd use a fly guide with a 10 ring to keep it JUST off the blank as thats the only real purpose of that guide.

For your intended purpose, you have the right blank. If you will be flylining live bait, why are you trying to cast lead?