A fall/winter project will be to build a couple tuna jig rods. I am intending these primarily for the inshore bluefin tuna fishery off the Jersey Shore, targeting tuna commonly in the 25-50 lb range but may range as high as 100-120 lbs (these are not the "giant" BFT but still pretty tough). I would like the rod to have the flexibility to pursue bigger tuna as well as amberjacks and similar fish on occasion. The jigs will be butterfly-type jigs usually in the 6-8 oz range, with near-vertical jigging. I want to use spinning reels (thinking Stella 10000SW or 18000SW, but might drop down to the much more affordable Saragosa reels) loaded with 65- or 80-lb braid. I am planning to use Jigging Master Power Spell 350- or 400-g blanks; the blanks are almost affordable and the commercial versions seem to be very popular in the tuna jigging world.

I haven't seen much discussion here or elsewhere on the web about these specialized rods and blanks. Some special features of these types of rods are that they are relatively short for leverage (less than 6 feet), have a slow ("parabolic") action, and can flex with strength at 90 degrees or more (you can find photos of people lifting 40-lb weights at probably 120+ degree angles with these types of rods; see for example [www.jignpop.com]). I figure this would put a huge stress on the guide wraps. Can anyone offer any pointers based on their experience? I am thinking that single-foot, SIC guides are essential for the flexing and the braid, with an underwrap and locking threads on the single foots. Any suggestions on specific guides? Should I plan on double overwraps or might that be overkill? Any requirement for special threads (I have seen some commercial builders talk about "Kevlar threads") or epoxies? Any thoughts on if/how guide spacing would be different?

Thanks in advance
-Dan

dan,
I have had awesome results with the American Tackle vertical jigging blanks. Great parabolic action, nice lifting power, etc. Double wrap the guides. I have been building mine with Virtus heavy and fuji guides so both would be a fine option. Mine are all double foot guides but you can try the singles and see what happens.

Email me at kknox@anglersenvy.com and I can forward pictures to you.

You are not too far from me, let me know if you need any components a I can help out with that.

Kevin

The slow parabolic style of rod blank is not for everyone. While many of the hardcore jig guys prefer a rod that has that bend,tehrea re a lot of fishermen who prefer afaster action blank which shuts off at the foregrip. Teh JiggingMasters are great blanks, I'm good friends with Kil and I've been to his shop pulling on those blanks, they are well worth the money and perfect if you are looking for a parabolic action - the JM's are not noodle rods likemany others which bend under the reel seat, they actuall have a point where they kind of shut off.


I've been workign with Seeker to design a line of blanks aimed at the guys who were looking for a faster actionigging rod, and this year we launched the HErcules line. RIght now there are only 3 blanks, 2 6' & 1 7' - teh 60H is the one that will be best suited for what you are looking to do. [northeastrodbuilders.com] THere are some sick pics of the amount of pressure you can put onthis rod in that link, scroll down a bit. There have been several 150# BFT's taken on the rod, and a few GOliath Grouper between 100-200#'s (estimated).

The Seeker Hercules blanks are available directly from me ([email protected]), as well as @#$%&, Mudhole, Kil's Shop, and Trophy Tackle in Long island.

Aas far as what guides - why try to reinvent the wheel? USe the same guides and build the rod teh sme way everyoen else is building it. Standard set up is MNSG 40 down to 12. DPSH 22 or 24 seat, EVA grips, gimbal. If any of that stuff you wanted to do was essintial, EVERY Tuna caught this year would have caused problems with the rods people were using - none of which had single foot guides, they weren't double wrapped. Just build the rod "normally" and don't give it a second thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2009 09:32AM by Billy Vivona.

Good advice from Billy.
I would do an underwrap (but I do that on ALL saltwater rods), but I wouldn't even consider single-foot guides.

I have caught over 600 BFT over the years (I was a charter captain), the largest (caught off Prince Edward Island) weighed just over 1,100 lbs. 8 were over 1,000, and the ones between 800 and 1,000 too numerous to count. 5 years ago, my son (then age 16) caught his first BFT using a diamond jig. It weighed 97 lbs and was caught off Block Island, R.I. He was using a conventional (Diawa Sealine) reel spooled with 50 lb braided dacron on a 6' composite jigging rod. I have also caught plenty trolling feather jigs and cedar plugs off a spinning rod.

I must say that the vertical jugging rods are pretty amazing, and I have built quite a few of them. However, if I were building one for myself, I would put a conventional reel on it. In my opinion, spinning reels excel at casting. No casting is done with vertical jigging. I know the system was designed for spinning reels, and I have nothing against spinning tackle. In fact, I love to catch big kings, mahi and wahoo on spinning tackle. I just don't understand using it for jigging.

Gary - I think that is because (I'm assuming here) you "traditional" jig, yo yo style up and down at a particular depth, or squid, where a blank with a faster action (imo) is a better option, whereas the Japanese Style fast crank & jerk is better suited for the parabolic action and spinning reels with the Japanese style jigs.

That would explain the difference. Thanks Billy

Like Kevin - I'd look hard at the American Tackle (heavy) Virtus guides.

Come on guys, the Virtus guides are great (both heavy and light) but they are not for spinning rods. These guys are using 12000, 18000, and 20000 size spinnign reels with teh first guide about 14" from teh seat - this isn't a place for concept, 27X, single foots, forhan wraps, or micro guides. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel, build the rods the way everyone else is building them (especially for teh first one) and go out and put some fish on teh deck. I should take my own advice, lol.

Thanks for the input. Certainly not trying to reinvent the wheel, just throwing out my logic to see what others think and also to pick everyone's brains. I have handled the Smith and Ocean Revolution jigging rods, but haven't seen the others "in person." I would have thought that, given the flex in these rods, that single-foot guides would be better; but I was also concerned about the strength of single-foot guides and if the legs would bend when the rod gets flexed under that much strain. Maybe I am over-thinking. I am going to Kil's shop either Friday or next week (when he gets back from his current fishing excursion) to check out the rods he has in stock, and I will be particularly interested in taking a closer look at the components used on the commercial rods. The Seeker Hercules blanks - those are great pictures, Billy. I have not seen these before, but they certainly seem to have the action I want. I will definitely check these out.

Thanks again, and more comments always appreciated.
-Dan

DAn, the single foot guides really have no place Offshore. YOu need to worry about hooking/landing the fish, not being careful tht the guides on your rod aren't bent out of shape or knocked out of alignment. There are a bunch of reports where guys have broken rods casting poppers at breaking fish and they had their hearts pumping - and they banged into each other on teh backcast. USe the strngest, lightest guides necesary - in this case it is FUji MN frames. As you do the fishing more you can then experiment with various set ups, and maybe move into the new guides Fuji designed for jigging. But for a first rod just get it built normal. IMO.

Tell Kil I said hello and I hope he is doing well. His shop is AMAZING, and it's not even fully set up yet. His entire back wall has a ton of blanks and rods piled up (literally), be prepared to be blown away. IF you like jigs or poppers don't tell your wife you are going there, lol. Over the winter there will be a NERBs rodbuilding Jigging/Popping gatheirng held at his location, hopefully you'll be able to come out and bring a friend or 2. Kil & I have already discussed it along with Ralph Scaglione aka Rodwinder who builds a majority of Kil's rods and customs for his shop - it's going to be a lot of fun and should be very informative for those seeking info such as what you are looking for right now.

Billy's Super Seekers are great! I am taking a 60H up to the Cape tomorrow after some BFT's!!!!! Can't wait!! The mudhole blanks are also nice and pretty inexpensive with a good amount of power. For the spinner, I spaced mine like what Billy said, the stripper is pretty close to the end of the 10" foregrip. With a Saragosa 18000, 80# Daiwa braid and a 4.5oz wooden popper, I can hit 45-50yds with it from the back of a boat and there is a lot of line slap on the stripper guide! That is also with a 20' or so 80# mono leader. I use the MNSG guides usually, but will use a LRSG 25mm for the stripper for my spiral wraps. I start with a 40mm, then work down to size 12's for running guides.

Billy - I did a little more research on the Hercules blanks online, and found several very favorable posts about them from you, Kil, and others on various message boards. I have a question on parabolic versus fast. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that you describe the Hercules blanks (and Kil also seems to describe them) as "fast" action. But when I look at the photos on the NERB website, it looks to me like the the entire blank is participating in the flex, not just closer to the tip (which is generally how I would define fast action). In the 50# and 65# pictures of the rod on the NERB site, it actually looks as if the foregrip itself is even flexing over the rail. I have always considered this type of action to be slow rather than fast, and this looks comparable to the flex in the jig rods that I see referred to as parabolic. Again maybe I am overthinking the issue and should wait until I get to Kil's to look, or maybe it is just an issue of semantics, but I would like to know your opinion on this.

Thanks again
-Dan

As a couple already mentioned, single foots have no place offshore. I have pictures of guides and guide frames smashed due to hitting the deck, anglers falling, tuna running hard down at the last second the the rod hits the side of the boat, aluminum gimbals smashed or broken gimbals, etc. Granted, these were usually caused by Cape tuna in the 100-350 pound class and topwater. There, you may think you are casting at a 150# tuna and a boil from something around 300#s of better boils there. You never know what the size of that fish wil be that hits it, so be prepared.

To suggest a blank, the Super Seeker Hercules will do you well. They are strong, surprisingly light, have a nice moderate action, shut off near the real seat/fore grip area, and are pretty tough to break. The 6' H might be the class you need.

Now, if Billy gets on Seeker to make me an XXH for these demon fish out there that will be extremely hard to catch next year on topwater...

Dan - that blank with 65#'s hangingoff the tip - I recommendfishingit with 22-25#'s of drag, but you can obviously push it a lot further. If you look at teh photos of the rod bent on fish, the 7' rod had what I consider a "normal" smount of drag onteh rod @ 22#'s, and youcan see where it is bent. The other pic has 32#'s of drag, and it's still not into teh foregrip. HEre's another picture
[skimmer.smugmug.com] THose super heavy load tests on teh rail were done to show how strong and durable teh blank is. If you are able to fish with 65#'s, you are much, much more of an animal thatn I can ever imagine to be, lol.

Parabolic or fast action for these types of rods describes how the rod blank reacts when teh jig is worked. moreso than the bend it takes whena fish is on. Most of teh rods that are parabolic with a jig on, by nature bend under the seat. The JM blanks that Kil has did not seemto do that at all when I flexed them, which I liked. So if that is the action you want when working the jig, I would get teh JM Powerspell. If you prefer a faster action when working the jig, I would get the HErcules 60H.

Both blanks in question here are excellent for what each was designed for.

The hercules blank under a normal fishable load (as billy stated above) such as 30# of drag and under, you will see the faster action of the rod.

The Mudhole XXH is completely parabolic and will bottom out of power around 35# of drag. The hercules blanks do not do this, although in either case no one really can physically hold anything over 30# for any sort of extended period. My personaly maximum fishable drag with a harness is 28# which I can sustain for a period of time. I do believe this blank would be able ot deadlift 40-45#, not sure about the 65# monster that Billy played with on his hercules series. In either case, a dead lift does nothing more than show the strength of a blank under a static load. A fish is a dynamic load that is constantly changing due to too many factors and cannot be easily replicated.

I do believe that any choice you make here will certainly be more than a fitting choice for what you want to do.

I have not personally played with the JMs, so I cannot comment on them.

Maybe OT but with the cast of experts here I must ask.

Other than the impossibility of backlashing during casting, what advantage would a spinning reel have over a convential reel for catching fish like tuna assuming the same line is used on both.

Thanks again to Billy and everyone else for the comments and suggestions. I will look forward to the NERBs meeting at Kil's shop, I will have to be on the look out for that. In the meantime, I look forward to visiting the shop and trying out the blanks, and examining the finished rods for construction. Not sure which way to go (JM, Hercules, or others), I guess I will decide when I get there (or just buy more blanks :-))

Regarding spinning versus casting for Russell, in addition to what Billy mentions above, I would say it is a personal preference more than anything. I am a die-hard conventional lever-drag lover for most of the boat fishing I do, but I simply like how the spinning setups feel compared to the conventionals when jigging. I stick the butt up under my armpit, and I am right handed; the location of the handle on the spinning reel is lower and it seems to fit better, and I can use my right arm to do most of the work. It feels more natural to me. Maybe an advantage is that there is less of a concern (fewer guides needed) with the line hitting the blank when the rod to flexed 90+ degrees; but for me it is much more a personal preference than something I can objectively point to.

-Dan

Dan, if you send me an e-mail I'll add you to teh NERBs newsletter list, and when gatherings are set up you'll be notified. WE just had 2 gatherings the past 2 Saturdays, one in my shop in Staten Island, and another in New Jersey.

The best method always to decide what blank or rod, or reel to buy - if for you to go and bend it, build it, and fish it. YOu have an excellent opportunity to pull on a WIDE selection of blanks, so you're gonna end up with somethign that you like, not somethign that someone else recommended, and not somethign you guessed at based on a catalouge spec.

Russell,

Further to what Dan said, I think a big advantage of spinning reels for jigging where there is heavy braid and high drag settings involved is the fact that your hands never need to go anywhere near the line. As you would know taught braid is bloody dangerous and while the chances of cutting yourself badly while laying line on an overhead are probably small, the use of a spinning reel eliminates the problem completely.

Cheers

Jason

Thanks guys. I can see certain things. The ability to have the dominate hand on the rod...the ability to cast closer to the water so a delicate live bait isn't stunned on the splash down.....perhaps the ability to cast farther as well.

I have just always felt more in control with a convential on big strong fish that head for the bottom. Those that fight on top are fine on spinning gear. I also find it hard to fly line a really large bait on spinning gear. There is also the considerable price difference between equvilant reels. It seems one must spend close to twice the price for a spinner and I have my doubts if they would last near as long.....plus I wouldn't want to try and service one on the water. No way I can afford the likes of a Stella!