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building for accuracy
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.safepages.com)
Date: September 24, 2009 11:42AM

Accomplished fly fishers routinely claim that casting accuracy is more important than casting distance. The mechanical component of fly casting accuracy apparently results more from the rod's tracking rather than its modulus or taper. When building a fly rod, especially a multi-piece rod, which is more likely to provide straight tracking, aligning the spines(s) of the blank's segments or aligning the segments in their straightest configuration?

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 24, 2009 12:29PM

The line (or lure) travels in the direction the rod tip is moving at the time of release. "Tracking" is a bit of mumbo jumbo for the most part. Turning or twisting around a central axis isn't going to cause casting inaccuracy. The only way to get the line (or lure) to go anywhere other than where you throw it is to have the tip travel in an arc. This is only really possible if you have a very bad warp or curve and place such warp or curve at 90 degrees to the normal casting plane.

If you want to think along these lines further - consider that few of us cast in a single plane. So if "tracking" was a problem most of us would have rods that were accurate in one plane and inaccurate in most others.

...............

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: Ken Finch (---.orlando-21rh15-16rt.fl.dial-access.att.net)
Date: September 24, 2009 12:51PM

Not sure I understand what you mean by "tracking". I assume that my rods move in the same direction that my hand does. How can they do anything else? I guess if you have a really bad crooked rod and you have all sorts of arc movements taking place you might never be able to be accurate with it, but who would build a rod on such a thing?

I can see the torque from the pressure on the guides as lever arms making the rod twist a little but like Tom said above, twisting around a central axis should not change the casting plane. raveling in arc would but the only way I can get my rod to travel in an arc is to move my hand in an arc and that still leaves the line or lure traveling in the direction that I threw it.

I may be way off base but my guess is that casting accuracy lies entirely within the ability of the person doing the casting, not the rod.

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.safepages.com)
Date: September 24, 2009 01:52PM

Ken, My understanding is that the line will continue in the direction the rod tip is traveling when it stops. This direction is not necessarily identical to the horizontal direction the casting hand, seven or eight feet distant, is traveling when it stops. The rod and the forces it faces intervene, which is the source of that subtle quality called tracking and the subject of my question.

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: Peter Sprague (---.reverse.vilayer.com)
Date: September 24, 2009 02:31PM

Interesting question but I tend to agree with Ken. I\'m not aware of any \"subtle force\" called \"tracking\". I would like to see someone make the rod tip travel in a different motion or plane than the rod grip does. I\'ll grant you that a badly warped or crooked blank like Tom mentions could cause it but it would take one heck of a lot of crook to do it.

Also even if you did decide that you must build either on the spine or on the straightest axis, How do you keep the fisherman casting in that plane all the time? I bass fish quite a bit and with the same rod we cast overhand, underhand, sidearm, flip cast and more. Whatever it takes. Which one of those planes would you put the spine or straightest axis on in order to have good \"tracking?\" And what then happens to all the others?

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: Richard Kuhne (---.listmail.net)
Date: September 24, 2009 02:42PM

Left Krey is a very accurate caster. I asked him once and he said his rods were built on the straightest axis. I believe he was using standard Sage equipment at that time. Steve Rajeff is an international casting champion many times over and the competitions he enters have an accuracy component. It is not all about distance, you have to be extremely accurate as well. His rods are also built so the guides are on the straightest axis. I know because I asked him.

I doubt that building on the straightest axis makes the rod more accurate but if these gentlemen do it that way then it must be something that does NOT detract from accuracy. Neither believes that rod spine has anything to do with accuracy.

What I would like to know, is whether or not they hand select rods or blanks that are exceptionally straight. I do not think you could be very accurate with a badly out of straight rod blank no matter what you did with it. Lefty and Steve turn up at a lot of club meetings and sportsmens show. Somebody should ask them how important they feel having a very straight rod blank is to accuracy.

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 24, 2009 03:33PM

It wouldn't take much effort to mock up the rod, build it on the spine and try it. Then build it on the straightest axis and try that. Then build it on neither and try that. I doubt you'll be able to tell any difference, but either way at least you'd have your own first hand experience to go by.

.................

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: gene bethea (---.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
Date: September 24, 2009 05:56PM

I have seen this discussed many times by many different rod builders and no conclusions have ever been reached except those who build on the spine are fervert in their rationale for doing so. I have always contended that you cannot sell a crooked rod so i build my rods on the straightest axis or plane. I agree with Tom; I dont believe you can tell the difference in cast accuracy either way. I have asked if any could tell by casting whether or not a factory made rod was made on the spine or on the straightest plane. Have never had any one say that they could-p-

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: Richard Kuhne (---.listmail.net)
Date: September 24, 2009 05:59PM

If a rod was only accurate when cast on the plane of the spine then you would be out of luck for any other cast that was made on any plane other than the spine. Same for the straightest axis too of course.

I would like to ask Lefty or Steve Rajeff their opinion on rod "tracking". If I run into one of the other at some point in the future I will.

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: James Hicks (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: September 24, 2009 09:13PM

I'm not an expert in fly casting by any means but I will say that accuracy in all areas I am familiar with are dependant on just one thing; consistency. Whether you're using a rifle, pistol, bow, spinning rod, or a 60mm mortar if you don't get consistent results from your equipment you won't have accurate results. A rod can be as wavy as the epoxy on my first butt wrap but if it casts the same way every time then I can cast it accurately once I'm familiar with its response. The consistency requirements for a multi-piece rod would include ensuring you can assemble it the same way each time; ferrule markers would help here. The grip should fit the hand in such a way that you can attain the same grip position each time; this may entail custom contouring the grip. Target range would help define the proper combination of line and blank. The biggest variable outside of wind and weather is going to be the shooters consistency; this requires lots of practice, and that requires that the rod be comfortable to use. I'll bet that any one of the professional fly rod builders on this site could take the most inexpensive fly blank and build a rod that would be much more accurate than the best factory fly rod on the market regardless of spine or straightest axis.

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.safepages.com)
Date: September 25, 2009 03:54PM

No doubt an accomplished fly caster can compensate for a wide variety of peculiarities in the way a particular rod performs. It is equally certain that such compensation takes time, and this learning curve lengthens as consistency between rods decreases. I assume that increasing consistency in performance between finished rods is not only a function of the blank manufacturer but of the rod builder as well, or are the advantages of a custom built rod chiefly cosmetic rather than functional?

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Re: building for accuracy
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 25, 2009 04:21PM

They should be functional first and foremost, but I'm not sure accuracy is in the cards. I have no idea how you would make an otherwise good rod blank into an inaccurate casting tool. I'd have to give that a great deal of thought.

Every rod I've ever owned, either commercially built or one of my own, has been every bit as accurate as I am.

............

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