i read the msgs about making decals with holographic print media. when i read the info on the holographic media i saw that it is for use with an INKJET printer.

in the begining of my decal voyage (like, way back when) i used an inkjet printer which produced wonderful looking decals . . . that faded and faded and faded within a year.

next i tried uv protective coating and the results were... fading and fading and fading within a year.

i finally wound up with an alps and i'm happy. my question is: when using the holographic media in an INKJET, can anyone tell me their experience with decal fading with this product?

also, does anyone know of holographic media that is available for the alps, and, if so, which vendors have it?

thanks in advance

When you use reverse imaging to crate decals on paper that has metallic or holographic the surface of the paper is used to create the desired images. The media surfaces do not appear to be subject to degradation. Black or dark colors of ink are the least affected by UV. Prudent choice of colors and wise use of the media will minimize any anticipated up degradation. The lighter colors such as reds and yellows may be more difficult to maintain long-term exposure. The labeling of rods using inkjet printers with inks is relatively new at present 1 year. All are holding up to expectations at present.

Here is some background that has been used for reference.

[www.signindustry.com]

If you do try the holographic media with you Alps be sure you order the Holo Shine Silver and not the thicker Holographic Plaid which is thicker and more difficult to get placed on smaller diameter blanks.

John Britt if you are reading this tell us if it works or not - please!

Take a look at the set up of the decals at the following links to view how it can be utilized. Remember anything you see that appears to be white will exhibit the media surface and not the ink - and is not subject to UV.

[www.swamplandtackle.com]

Jay

Your post has caused me to briefly interrupt an experiment I have ongoing concerning the issue of fading you ask about.

At the ICRBE earlier this year, I had four 'example sticks' of the four different mediums mentioned in the article. When I got home from the show, I hung the stick of holographic decals on the corner of my boat dock where it was fully exposed to the elements 24/7. It has been there until this morning without interruption until I gave it a good cleaning to rid spider webs and dirt daubers nests.

There are 7 different holographic decals on this stick with colors all over the spectrum. A very close inspection and comparison with my "kept in house" duplicate decals reveal that six of the seven are almost indistinguishable from the duplicates. One of the decals has two small spots about 1/8" in diameter that show no color. A close inspection of the two spots reveal that there were either thin spots in the epoxy or possibly fish eyes.

My abreviated conclusion at this point is that properly applied decals will be serviceable for an extended period of time.

It was my intention to keep this stick undisturbed for one year which I will do by re-hanging it in a few minutes and will follow up with another report in about 7 months.

Thanks for the question.

thanks to bobby, swampland and bill for the informative replies.

i've never used holographic media and, from what i see here, i have some "stucyin' up" to do on the subject. from what i read, i gather that the printer (inkjet or other) does not actually apply ink to the surface of the media, but, rather, somehow activates the surface of the holographic paper to create the image - "reverse imaging" as bill called it.

if i understand this correctly, then i have to assume that i have no real control of the color i want to print - for example, if i want the customer's name to be a font with pinkbody and with black shadow (yes, i know it's very 50's, but that's what the customer wants), then i really can't do that with holo media. am i correct in this assumption?

bobby, your experiment is a worth effort and i'm sure i'm not the only one to hear the results after one year's exposure to the elements. my experience with inkjet name decals really turned me off as the fading was dramatic within a few months (black turned green, dark blue turned putrid green and all others faded to white)- although, the ink i was using was NOT the UV type that i read about in bill's link to signindustry. from my experience, i caution anyone doing decals with inkjet printers to get the right ink and talk to someone who has used it for more than a couple of months.

i clicked the link to swampland's decals and i must say they are beautiful. the last line of your post which says, "Remember anything you see that appears to be white will exhibit the media surface and not the ink - and is not subject to UV. " causes me to think that ink from the inkjet printer is applied to the holographic media which, in turn, shoots down my assumption that it is not (reverse imaging). also, "anything that appears to be white is not subject to UV" makes me wonder if the other colors are.

AKKKKK! i'm confused again! thanks for 'listening'

You can print in any colors you wish. Even pink. The lighter the color the more holo shine reflection you will receive back to the eye. Some of the lighter shades will even change color when light is reflected back at different angles. A white color of course will allow you to see the original print medium and black allows no reflection to return.

Like Tom Kirkman said in a previous post on this subject, "Anything left in direct sunlight will eventually show some signs of fading." My experiment is trying to answer the question about how long it will take to notice fading on the holographic medium.

Hope this helps.

Jay,
You don't mention what kind of printer you have, but it sounds like it may be one of the printers with ink that doesn't work well with the holographic paper.

Robert

Color fading is technically "photodegradation" as light (sunlight especially) is quite powerful and will fade all dyes. Pigments are much less subject to the fading and some colors are better than others. The color most subject to fading is red. Pigments with UV resistance if available offer the best hope for some longevity.

Booby's outdoor test is very practical as it simulates long time use outdoors. Can't wait for the next report Bobby!

I have been following the threads about the use of this holographic media, and I have a follow-up question. Can I assume that the inkjet inks do not run when pro finish is brushed on them? (I use a Canon Pixma 600 printer)

Here is a thread on this forum hat contains a lot of information.

[rodbuilding.org]

The decals will accept two part epoxy finish without damage when allowed to dry properly.

Scan down the attached post for specific information on this subject:

Swampland and Texas Craft have sold hundreds of packages of this media to custom rodbuilder who are using it quite successfuly.

The Canon 600 was included in the testing and it works fine.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2009 02:40PM by Bill Stevens.

Jay,

I have an Alps MD1000 that I had been using for decals until the holo's came out. I have not tried them in the Alps because instead of being sprayed on as with inkjet, the colors are heat applied and the holo effect (I don't think) would show through. However, that being said, I think that if you would turn off or not use the white undercoat, you would have a very striking holo font if you used white for the color of the font in your graphics software, due to no pigment being applied there. I haven't tried this yet but plan to.

Bill in WV



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2009 06:12PM by William Bartlett.

Bill (in WV)

thanks for the suggestion. i have an alps MD5000. if i use white as the font color, the alps won't print anything (on the font). to print white, i'd have to do the font in black and then use white as a spot color and print using single ink. this means i'd be printing white on the media, which is contrary to your suggestion. so my question is, how do i print using white as the font color and still engage the holographic media?

jay in MN

That is exactly what you want - select white for the font so that the printer will not apply anything - select a background to place around the font - that way the media will produce the holographic image of the text where you selected white. This is what I attempted to explain with the word reverse imaging.

Bobby

thanks for the info on printing pink (or whatever other color i may wish) on holographic media. your answer brings me back to my main concern and that is that i have had very poor results using inkjet inks in making decals and i am reluctant to put decals on a rod only to have the customer ask me to remove the faded results a year later.

given the endorsements of those who read and responded to this thread, i feel i should go ahead and 'damn the torpedoes' and just do it. Tom K. is correct - given time, everything fades(except the chrome bumpers on automobiles made from 1955 - 1960). my experience is that inkjet inks faded DRAMATICALLY within a year. perhaps this will not be the case with holographic media.

i googled vendors and one (texas craft) that i found that offered holographic inkjet media sold it with the caveat - "not recommended for outdoor use".

they didn't say why it was not recommended for outdoor use. do they mean 'because it will fade like the chicago cubs in august" or do they mean 'because the weather will ravage it like the genghis khan going through europe"? if it's not the former, and only the latter, then the solution is simple.... cover the decal with flexcoat and voila! weather resistant!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2009 07:42PM by jay ross.

Robert

my main printer now is an alps MD5000. i don't know if it is holographic media compatible or not because i haven't tried it .... ... ... ... ... yet.

i also have a dell laser printer and this is my fallback decal printer. the laser printer decals last longer (fade resistant) than inkjet decals.

then, last, i have a HP inkjet printer which i used in the begining ... the very begining... to make decals. as i have said throughout this discussion, the fading was main reason i moved on to other printers.

i've looked for UV resistant inkjet cartridges, but i haven't found any yet.

BTW - if any of you readers are using an alps for foil decals and notice foil degredation after applying flexcoat or whatever else you are using, i have had perfect results doing an over coat of Tamiya X-22 clear acrylic which is available online or at most hobby stores.

Jay

Texas Craft will tell you very quickly that you will need some kind of UV protection over the printed media. Your epoxy finish (most any brand should work although I use Threadmaster) is the protection you are looking for. Just don't leave 'fisheyes' in it or you will get little round circles like I explained earlier.

Bobby

oh i sure know about fish eyes. i learned the hard way. "What the #$#%# are those little circles!!?" then one day i logged on to this forum and completed my education about fish eyes and how to cure them - or should i say, PREVENT 'em.

i think i have a half-empty bottle of every kind of polymer/epoxy ever manufactured - i've tried 'em all and almost all are more than adequate. but do any of them offer UV protection... you know, like the stuff they put on windows so your carpet won't fade?

i bought a bottle of crud once... the vendor said it was UV protectorant and would retard fading. it retarded fading for about.....ohhhhhhh, five minutes, i'd say. i'll sell it to you for half price (and there's more than half a bottle left.)

Bill

BINNGGGGGGG-goooooo! gotcha! i understand now. reverse imaging! yesssssssssss! i understand now! i can do that. like they said in that movie, "Fargo".

"youbetcha!"

that;s a great idea and i'll be sure to try it.

and thanks for the thread - i'm going now to read up on all the stuff i don't know and (hopefully) gather some confidence that inkjet/holographic decals won't fade like the regular inkjet decals.

Jay welcome to the group of outside the box wanderers! From time to time it gets rather lonely out here but our group really has some fun!