Hi Folks,

Although I've built a fair number of rods, I'm in the process of building my first for sale rod, and I'd like to get some input about my guide spacing. The blank is a recycled (at the customer's request) Quantum TGS661MW, 6' 6", rated 6-12 lb. line and 1/8- 1/2 oz. lures. After complete stripping and refinishing , I 've installed a split grip with a Fuji cork covered quicklock grip. Guides are Berkely SS304. Butt dia. = .472, tip = .093 .

The customer supplied the reel to be used on the rod - an ABU Cardinal with a 1 5/8" dia. spool. Using the NGC system (as I understand it), I come up with the following size & spacing (measured between guides):

tip (6) - 3.5" - (6) - 4.5" - (6) - 5.0" - (6) - 5.5" - (6) (choke guide) - 6.0" (12) - 6.5" - (20) - 8.0" - (25) - 23" to spool face.

Static testing shows a good mimic of the rod curve, especially on the upper guides (last 5).

Am I OK for that much distance to the butt guide, and do the rest of the sizes and spacings sound about right? Any comments would be appreciated - I'd like to start wrapping tomorrow night.

I'll defer to the pros on this board about your spacing but will try my hand at giving some input. Did you do a static test? The static test will show you if your spacing is correct regardless of what guesses I may come up with. I'm guessing the first guide from the tip is too close and the other guides seem too tight together too. For the butt guide there are quite a few methods that these guys use to determine position, personally I start with about 18" for my own rods, then I select a butt guide that gets close to matching the line path at that point using the 27x method, and then I adjust the position from the 18" starting position to where the guide best fits the line path. For a 6'6" blank those measurments you gave leave you with 16" from spool face to butt. That seems like an awfully long handle. Unless it's for a special purpose you probably don't want the butt to extend beyond the elbow when holding the rod in a casting position.

You only need 7 guides for that rod. If I were building it with what you have , I would drop the #25 guide and use the #20 for the butt guide. Add another 6 or add an 8 between the 12 and the choker guide and see what it looks like. You could look at your line path on both setups to see which looks the best. Try to get the bullseye pattern with the 20,12, 8 or 6.
As James said, use the 27 x method and space them again on a static load and do some test casting and see what you think.
That's the way I would do it. You will probably get more suggestions. But my guess is, what ever you settle on , she will cast great because you are already on the right track.

It sounds pretty decent to me. I'd have to look at it to make sure, but what you have arrived at is certainly very well within the ballpark.

The distance between butt guide and reel sounds good. Moving to a size 20 butt guide would increase that distance by enough that line slap on the blank might be troublesome. Might.

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Thanks for the all the input. James, the length of the butt from the center of the reel stanchion to the end is 13"; this guy is 6'5" and that puts the end of the butt just ahead of the elbow bone with two fingers straddling the stanchion.
Tom, that was the concern I had going any smaller on the butt guide - I'm already so far out that I'm worried about line slap, as you suggested.

Jay, your comment raises a question for me. Does the number of guides include the tip, or not? I've always counted the number of guides not including the tip. I've got 7 plus a tip on the rod, and it doesn't seem like too many, but I may simply be overguiding the situation. The reason for the short spacing on the first two guides is to provide more support for the tip in case the customer high sticks on the strike. The line path on the static test matches the rod well for the first 5 guides, and concentricity (bull's eye effecty) is good, but I got to thinking that the more guides you put on, the better the line path will match. How does one strike that happy medium between too many and not enough?
Again, thanks for the input - this is my first time using the NGC and the static test methods - I have always set more by eye , proportion and feel up until now.

I think you've done a good and careful job here. The number of guides you have is well within reason.

The only other thing you might do, just to see how it affects things, is drop the size of the choker and running guides down to say, size 4's. Just to see how it casts. If it does equally well and will still pass his required line and any possible connections, then you'll have removed a little weight off the mid and tip areas.

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No, the number of guides does not include the Tip Top. The way I first read it, I saw 8 guides and the tip ( my bad). With the reel face at 1 5/8 " dia., the numbers crunch to a size 20 butt guide. I always try to use the smallest guides I can get away with. I also set the first guide from the tip at 3.5 inches for the same reasons as you.You are definitely on the right track IMO. I like what you are doing. If the 25 butt guide is looking good, go for it , it's going to sit a little higher which is a good thing. Would be neat to test cast some 4's as running guides. If you haven't used them, you are in for a treat, sure does streamline one.

Again, thanks for the input and comments, folks! I'm going to stay with the size 6 guides for this build, as the customer wanted the Berkely guides and they don't offer a size 4, but I will definitely be building a spec. rod with the smaller guides as a demo to see if I can win some converts. The size 25 butt guide seems to give a somewhat better line path on this rod; even it could be a tad higher if I follow the NGC line exactly, but I don't think I need to go up to a size 30, given the weight vs. cast efficiency tradeoff.