Eric - Have you tried using the zip ties? Much more secure.

-----------------
AD

Not as of yet. I wanted to try some dental rubber bands that are used on braces first. They will work to hold while getting ready to wrap, but nothing more. Tie wraps are next on the list.


Eric

I am following this subject very intensely. After the holidays I will be building
a few rods using micros (spinning & casting). I will definately be documenting
weights & cast results with what ever set-ups used in testing and final assembly.
Numbers will be provided.

An extensive RMM article or pictorial for my public web-library detailing the various
"real world" facts & figures concerning micro set-ups for different task specific
applications is sorely needed. The sooner an accuate non-bias fact based
article can be created the better. I'm sure this will require input from multiple
builders experienced in their individual task specific applications. I look
forward to seeing one or even creating one myself with help from others.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Raymond

Give me a shout, I'll be happy to help where I can.

Bobby

Bobby Feazel

[www.shockwaverods.com]

Conventional wisdom will not open the box.

The contributors to the M&M threads have to this point in time specialized in set ups of micro casting rods. Several of us have built a few specialized spinning rods for drop shot shaky head rods and other finesse applications.

I have been in close contact with Bob McKamey and know that he is quite enthusiastic about the performance of mico spinning rods that are currently being built in his shop by his son.

The primary issues related to the spinning rods are the height, distance from reel and staging of the transition to micros. I have previously utilized the Fuji TATSG, High V Frame RECS and Amtaks for the spinning rods I have built. The rods pictured in the [www.rodbuilding.org] thread used an AMTAK titanium 10 for the first guide. Please click on the picture when it opens and you can get a close up of the set up. The picture is an optical illusion the butt guide is a 10.

I received a set of several set ups for spinning rods from Bob yesterday for use on rods utilizing different size reel spools. The purpose of this post is to present various options for guide sets for use on micro spinning rods.

Fuji: BYAG 16J, BYAG 8J, BLAG 6J, running LSG 3.5 or TSG 3.5

Forecast: TCVS3TCG 16, TCVS3TCG 8, TCVS3TCG 6, running Alps TCMKCG 4.0 or 3.0

Fuji: TYSG 10J, TYSG 8J, TYSG 6J, running Fuji TLSG3.5, Top TLST 5.5 tube 4.0 ring

Bob also sent me a sample of a 4 ring 5.5 tube Alps micro top - this one is made with a stainless tube.

If you attend the ICRBE in February you will be able to compare the performance of many micro set ups all under the same roof.

Bob was having computer problems yesterday and hopefully he can get on line pretty soon and describe his experiences with the micros directly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2008 12:54PM by Bill Stevens.

Hi, I was wondering if it would be practical to build a two piece casting rod with micro guide running guides. That way when a conventional on top micro guide setup would be ideal for distance casting, just turn the simple spiral running guides up. That is what I want to try on my next rod, maybe even use the bumper guide if careful as a hook keeper. I am wanting to switch to two piece rods for transportation reasons. Any thoughts, ideas, on the possible pitfalls of a combo conventional simple spiral casting rod. Have a great day, Rich.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2008 01:10PM by Rich Gassman.

I have built several rods this year...both spinning and casting. I am a convert to the simple spiral and make all of my casting rods with this set up now. Spinning rods also get micros for the runners and no larger than a 20mm butt guide in most cases. Micro guides are great and I have had no problems with them. I have used a single micro guide wrapped as a tip top to good effect. I use the Forhan locking wrap on all these guides.

I have read the conventional spacing guidelines (on both casting and spinning set-ups), and I take some liberty with these measurements as I feel warranted. However, I am somewhat of a 'guidelines' follower because I respect the experience of my betters...the creators of the guidelines probably have a good reason, based on experience, however, I do know that rules are not set in stone. The idea of the first guide from the tip being spaced further than the following three or five guides is intriguing. I suppose this could work because in reality the first few inches of tip section is under less flex than that point about 16-inches back...the tip is usually pointed straight at the reisitance of fish or lure so there is less need for a guide to help the line follow the curve of the blank. In my little orderly mind, I like to go ahead and space these 'tip guides' equally at around 31/2 to 41/2 inches apart. With the micros I know I am not adding any weight to worry about.

The area of interest for me is in spinning rod set ups where I want to use the smallest guides I can...no larger than a 20 mm BYAG for the butt guide. This seems to require that I place this guide further out from the reel face than the guidelines suggest. It has been mentioned that if this butt guide gets placed too far out then there is a possibility of line slap or the wind having an influence on line flow. I've never really pushed it to see as usually I find a compromise that seems to work great for me. Not too close and not too far.

In an experiment I replaced the larger 6mm and larger guides on one of my favorite factory St. Croix rods (69MLXF) with all micros, including the stripper guide...it casts extremely well and the action feels much more crisp in my hand. I used the original factory spacing, added one transition guide at 90-degrees, and substituted 4mm Fuji BLAG guides.

I built a GLoomis P902 simple spiral with micro guides for my dad to take to Canada...he put the rod through its paces and loves it. He throws braded line with a Shimano Calais. The spacing on this rod was determined by stressing the rod...and because it was a spiral wrap I did not see the need to add any extra guides. He can throw a Rapala CD-9 or 3/8 oz. jig as far as he wants to huck it with this rod.

Like Tom said, I use the micro guides where they seem to work best in the set up...and so far I have found very few cases where they aren't able to be used with great results. I suppose some large caliber rods might need larger guides for strength considerations, or on rods where passing leader knots is an issue. Other than that I use micro guides everywhere I can.

The main advantage of the micro guides, in my opinion, is the weight reduction. I have always valued a light rod and especially an extra fast action (where the initial flex of the rod blank is in the first 9-inches - like in my favorite casting blank the SC68MXF). The reduced weight out at the tip is critical to the rod feeling right to me!

Les

In the new year I have decided to try smaller guides on a couple of light tackle rods. I usually use size 6 fly guides, even on the UL and L rods I commonly build and use, because we often run longer 2 stage leaders and pass knots (braided 8 and 10 lb line to 15, 20 and 30 lb mono/fluoro leaders). Even trying to go as light as possible, and space for the least number of guides, some of the rods are still slightly tip heavy.

Haven't seen the need to go much smaller, as leader knots rattling through the guides can shock the knot and lead to failures and smaller guides aren't readily available here. Hopefully the smaller guides will work well on the lighter rods, and we can enjoy some of the lightweight benefits you guys have been raving about.

Ted have you ever messed with the location of the uni knot? If you tie it far back enough on the line where the knot is well on the spool - it helps greatly - that knot location minimizes the effect that the centrifugal breaking system on the reel senses when the spool is up to velocity -. The tick you refer to on larger guide rings is really no more noticible on the smaller guides. A well slobber uni knot, with in place loops on both ends of knot and well trimmed ends will go through the small guide in a surprising manner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2008 01:10PM by Bill Stevens.

Les:
You also have the ( M ) guides that give you the advantage of a higher guide frame and the use of a smaller ring size. You may just have to try and match them with the micro's.

Hi Bill. We're using light spinning tackle for most of our lurefishing down here. It's the longer leaders that cause the problem the most, as it seems choking the line flow down with the leader knot in the "cone" is what makes it catch and rattle through. Shorter leaders, with the knot sitting either between the 8L and the 6's, ot in the 6's, cast better. Use the 6's because of the diameter of the leader knots.