I'm building an eleven foot back bouncing rod. The reel is a low profile level wind bait caster, the level wind guide hole (the hole is round) is a size 6 SF is there any reason to put any larger sized guide on the rod than a 6 SF? Not much reason to do much if any casting with the rod.

Maybe. How wide is the reel?

You also need to make sure the line stays off the rod and/or the foregrip when under full load. To achieve that you may have to use a larger ring which also increases the height.

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The reel is a Shimano Bantam, level side play is 1 1/4".

The reel is really low on the rod (1 1/4" off the blank), if I put a larger sized guide on it the line will go up at an angle, may get away with a 10 with out much angle, but I don't know. I guess I'll have to play around with it, to see where I have to go on guide sizes?????

And so you've come round to the whole point of building your own.

Build the grip, reel seat, and foregrip, and add the tip-top. Do your layout with the guides taped in place using whatever method you like - tape, tubing, etc. String it up as you add each guide, starting with the stripper. run the line through the tip. Look how the line lays along the rod at rest, then under 25% bend. Turn it over (upside down) and bend the rod upside down. See if the line climbs off the reel face. If it does, you now have a bit of a quandary - you need a stripper that's big enough to accomodate the side-to-side motion of the line coming off the reel, but low enough to result in the low point of the insert being no higher than the top of the spool. There are several styles of guide for this, and I'm going to tell you that a micro-guide as the stripper ain't one of them, any more than a stadnard fly guide would be a reasonable stripper on most fly rods.

You may have to try several styles of guides before you find the one you need. On the other hand, take an actual measurement of the heigth of the line above the TDC of the blank as it comes off that particular reel, and ask your favourite vendor or sponsor to suggest something that'll fit. If he's as good as the sponsors here, he'll go into his stock, pull a few guides, and measure them for you for the heigth you need. When they find the right one, all you do is order it.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Tim

I'm going to "swim against the current" here with one disclaimer. The disclaimer is that I have never build on an eleven foot BB blank but I have built a number of eight foot BB rods of different powers. I don't see why the same technique won't work. It'll just take a few more guides.

I wouldn't hesitate to use all one size micros in this case. Yes, that includes the stripper and I am totally confident they will hold up to the loads you will be putting on the rod. I am referring to a conventional rod with guides on top.

The criteria I use: While under FULL static load I DO allow the line to JUST barely touch the top of the blank at each guide interval. But I don't allow it to go below the top of the blank.

I have had numerous people contact me about this technique complaining that they wind up with too many guides. In all cases they have "stayed in the box" and set the stripper guide first like they normally do. So I have to explain that one should use the same criteria for the interval between the reel and the stripper as they do between all the other guide intervals.

All my eight foot BB rods have 9 micro guides plus a tip, so I suspect you should wind up with 12, maybe 13 guides.

As Tom suggested be aware of what is happening at the fore grip if you deside to try this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2008 09:44AM by Bobby Feazel.

Tim,
Can you tell me what the advantage is of building a back bouncer that is that long? What is your secret? Normally eight feet is plenty long enough for a back bouncer plus the tip of a back bouncer should have enough power so as to easily lift the weight, usually at least several ounces, that you are using without bending a great deal. It would seem to me that you will have to have a very powerful and heavy 11 foot rod to get the necessary stiffness in the tip. Plus doesn't an 11 foot rod make it a pain when attempting to land a fish from the boat?

I have seen long what I think were called bounce rods rigged in guide boats in the Kenai for Kings in the spring - some of them have two guys in the back of the board and two guys in the front - all rods are in rod holders and the ones sitting in the front have the shorter rods and the ones sitting in the front use longer ones - the guide stays in back of the boat with a huge net. The fishermen stay in the seat while working the fish to the back of the boat. Since everyone stays seated in their assigned seat I think the different longer lenghs are for trooling spread widening in the swift current. They are running the boat motor to hold the boat in the same place in the fast current. They blew this Bayou mind when I realize they were running the outboard about 2,000 rpm and the boat was not moving. The guide really whacked me out when he told me the big throphy Kings would feel like you were hung up on a log - instructions were just to hold on for at least a minute and if you felt the log move it was a King and to start pumping and reeling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2008 12:38AM by Bill Stevens.

Bill,
If the rod is in a rod holder you are not back bouncing. To employ the technique called back bouncing you must be bouncing the lead off of the bottom as you back the boat down the river just as the name implys. The guides, particularly on the Kenai, are dealing with people from all over the world that are for the most part not experienced Salmon fishermen and they do not want them holding the rod. They use bait, usually Salmon eggs, along with a lure, spin glow or quick fish or big flat fish, in an attempt to get the fish to hold on longer so the fishermen have a chance to hook them. Plus the Kenai is a big, fast moving river of almost uniform depth and the Salmon are normally moving up the river not holding in pockets or deeper water where the back bouncing technique is most productive. However, I have built quite a few rods for guides that used them on the Kenai and because the fish can be very big and the water is relatively fast they do use mostly short, powerful rods that are often made from back bouncing blanks.

Questionl
If a back bouncing rod is not being used for back bouncing. Does it cease to be a back bouncing rod?

I found it hard to believe that a four stroke running at 2,000 rpm would allow a boat to backslide in the current of that river. I guess the guide was using his skill to back bounce the rods of four Bayou Bippies who were not interested in fishing for "moving logs" and were more interested in the Eagles fishing techniques! The guide put a 50# or better in each seat and was quite surprised when none of us were interested in signing an agreement for taxidermist and mounting fee. He really needs to improve his "hook setting" to get all of a Bubba's money!

Bill,
The guide you went with may very well have been using rods designed for back bouncing but the technique that they use on the Kenai, if the rod is in a rod holder, is not really back bouncing. A number of the guides on the Kenai come from around here and I know a number of them very well and in fact have built rods for a number of guides that fish the Kenai. They use the back bouncing rods because they are powerful rods with relatively slow actions. They use this type of rod for several reasons not the least of which is the rods are more forgiving in the hands of people that do not really know what they are doing.