I had a discussion with a guy from work, and once again I had to show my intelligence. I was almost embarassed by giving my ussual answer. i am so predictable.

The question was: "Why do casting rods normally have double foot guides and spinning rods have single foot guides?"

My reply was: "idunno".

What is the reason and does it really make a difference?

Thanks,

Bill

Ohio Rod Builders

Canton, Ohio

Being from Ohio, I assume you are referring to freshwater rods. Just an opinion, but think that, for the most part, tradition and myths kind of rule the sport and people just kind of accept that casting rods must take more fishing stress and require stronger guides and some think that SF guides can't hold up to rod holders (pre-Forhan wraps). Taking their cue from custom builders, I think that many high end rods are now sporting SF guides I have seen them (SF) used on many custom salmon trolling rods. and I only use the on the but and MAYBE one guide on musky rods before switching to SF ceramic fly guides. That being said I mostly do simple spiral wraps on casting/trolling rods. I think that the amount of actual strees placed on a guide is way overestimated.

Caveat: This is my opinion, which may or may warrant any consideration at all!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Bill E. - You need to order two or three of the single foot 3.5 ring micros from a board vendor and take them to work with you - show them to the guy and tell him these are now showing up on many rods that used double foot guides for bass fishing and he will probably be the next one to mumble "I dunno"! And you bet your bippie the weight reduction makes a difference! Do you subscribe to Rodmaker Magazine ?- Fully explained the advantages of this stuff in the last issue.

Bill E. ; The fact that DF guides are on Casting rods and SF guides are on Spinning may be like " Spineing" a rod blank or like using all sizes of guides on a rod . These ideas probably came up many years ago and are still with us today. Probably someone said," These guides would be a lot stronger if they had 2 braces instead of one", as he hauled in the huge Catfish. Manufacturers are reluctant to change for numerous reasons. But the Custom Rod Building industry , being full of innovative builders, are slowly changing the notions of the rod manufacturers. I am seeing SF running guides, and most of them are #6's instead of #8's, on a lot of the higher end Casting rods built today. They are shortening the seats and using pretty trim rings and numerous other things that Custom Builders have been doing for years. I believe in the next few years we will see some major changes in the Rod Manufacturing business, but the Custom Builder will be the leaders in these changes. To name a few innovations,,, Forhan Wrap, Foam Core Grips,Micro Guides,Spiral Wrap,,,and the list goes on and on.

,,,,,Just thinking out loud,,,,,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2008 03:17AM by Jay Hunt.

I think (uh oh.....) That it is because the double foot guides on a casting rod traditionally push down on the rod and double foot guides on top of a casting rod accomplish two things, 1. they distribute the pressure over a larger surface area as they are on top single foot guides could possibly grind into the rod blank more when fighting a fish causing a weak spot., 2. a single foot guide could possibly bend over being on top of the rod when fighting a serious good fish. You could turn them around backwards and eliminate the #2 problem though it would look goofy though.

I'm not gonna even begin to give Jay's semi-comment about "spining" (correct spelling) the reply it deserves, but I'll offer some slightly different ideas about dbl-ft vs sgl-ft.

Some guides need a dbl-ft design in order to support the guide itself, such as the stainless "simple ring" guides. These can be used on spinning rods just as well as casting rods. Some dbl-ft guide styles are indeed meant for strength under certain conditions, such as the "S" guide style (dbl-ft, dbl-braced) or boat-rod styles. And in the larger sizes, there are almost no sgl-ft quides generally available above 40mm, so for an extra large stripper on a surf rod, for example, you're stuck with a dbl-ft guide.

On the other hand, the exceptions are the REC guides, which make up for pure strength with flexibility, and super light weight in the bargain.

A couple of extra thoughts: (1) I think every extra wrap on a rod reduces flexibility to a certain extent, even if it's only a very little bit. That's an argument against dbl-foot guides. (2) More and more casting rods are being built with sigl-ft guides but the argument against that is that the higher-style sgl-ft guide (even the littlest ones) produces more torque, so folks are migrating toward fly guides and micro-guides, which are not only sgl-ft but super low to the rod by comparison.

I think you have to choose what's best for the kind of rod and fishing your customer wants to do.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Good points Uncle Russ. I was thinking about fresh water casting and spinning rods. I think the guides on all fresh water manufactured rods are an overkill , too much weight and the strength isn't needed. As I said, I was just thinking out loud.
And by the way , neither my spelling nor your spelling of the word " spining / spineing " is correct. The word is not in Mr Webster's book.

Mike,

i should have made myself clearer. Yes, i am talking fresh water. He fishes mostly walleye and bass.
The s.f. guide seem to have a longer foot area so I sort of felt that it would make no difference but I was not able to back it up with any other logical explanations. i am not sure if I have ever saw s.f. on the racks of sporting good stores.

Bill

Ohio Rod Builders

Canton, Ohio

You will be hard pressed to find a commercial line of high quality bass or walleye rods that does not presently incorporate single foot guides. All you need to do to verify this is do an internet search on "casting rods bass walleye" and take a look. Any build technique that reduces the tip weight while producing the desired durability will produce a better fishing tool.

Bill E.

Being predominately a walleye angler (live on the Detroit River/mouth of Lake Erie), I build primarily walleye rods for trolling, jigging, bottom bouncing in an area where 10 pounders are not that unusual and the ONLY time that I ever use DF guides is for the butt guide and maybe one other before switching to all fly types except for Downrigger rods and sometimes Dipsy rods and those where the user insists on conventional instead of Simple Sprial (which is VERY few)

Jay, right on with the spining, spineing, splining, etc.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I would like to state for the record (because I understand and understood when typing it that the point of view is way out dated) that I am in agreement with the others. My understanding was that you were asking why the older and/or cheaper casting rods traditionally have double foot guides. I would bet that they also had weaker metal frames as well. With the guides available now , I can not see any purpose for adding extra weight, I have never considered the fact that wore wraps could reduce flexibility but it sounds reasonable.