Ok, I realize I may be opening a hornets nest but I hope not.
I haven't been on the site long so I have to ask, Why does it seem that everyone is quietly discouraged from buying from a vendor other than the site sponsors? Don't get me wrong, I am familiar with most of the names at the side of the page and know that they are all reputable businesses that support our craft and this site. But I just could not understand why members are prohibited from mentioning the name of a business that does not sponsor the site. Because aside from a few like mud hole and Johnnys pond a lot of these places charge full retail price for anything you buy. Being a regular guy with a regular hourly wage job I have to search for deals on everything I buy, and often those deals won't be found at the side of this page. Now, that being said, if I am looking for an item that is hard to find I know I can find it at one of these suppliers and have no issue with using them. And often times I have seen threads where a guy is looking for something and several members direct him to the sponsor sites when I can tell him another place to get what he is looking for for a much better price and comparable quality service, but for this rule against me pointing this fact out.

I understand that these vendors basically pay for the site, but wouldn't it make sense that if we spread the word on the site of other good vendors they may decide to sponsor the site as well when they hear that they are well thought of by the site members in there own effort to promote themselves?

This is just a question, I am not slamming any vendor on this site by any means, and I respect Tom and other long time members who readily share their knowledge with guys like me. If there is just a list of sites that I cannot mention then Tom, would you please send me a copy? I buy a lot of stuff off of the @#$%& site and other shops because I simply cannot afford to go elsewhere and with the vendors that I regularly use I have had nothing but good experiences and I don't think anyone here would direct others to a shady operation.

If this thread is out of line or against site rules then feel free to remove it. I will not be offended. But if so could you please just email me an explanation of the rules in regard to this question. Thanks

We mention non-sponsoring vendors from time-to-time and there is NO rule prohibiting it NOR is it discouraged. I for one, do encourage buying from the vendors that do sponsor this site and the Expo ... but I have occasionally pointed someone in the direction of a non-sponsor when looking for a highly specific item.

You might possibly be referring to the automatic filter on the board ... it stops the posting of profanity AND there is one particular vendor that is also filtered ... they had a VERY bad situation awhile back and didn't care to correct it. The ensuing issue left Tom no choice but to ban them as a sponsor and subsequently prevent the posting of their business name on the board.

Most forums have rules against promoting non sponsoring vendors. In fact, I can only think of one or two of the 50 plus forums I have visited that don't. Running a site like this cost money. If a vendor can get all the sales benefit without being a sponsor, there is no incentive for them to become a sponsor, hence, the rules against promoting non sponsors on most sites. This site isn't bad and I have many times offered a referral to non sponsor. In fact, one of the most common names you see in referrals is Harbor Freight because of their variety and cheap prices and I'm sure they are not a site sponsor.

I try to buy from sponsoring vendors whenever possible. I would estimate 95% of what I buy comes from one, but I'll buy from anyone that provides good service and reasonable prices. Remember, you can always email someone a referral if you'd like.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2008 11:36AM by Robert Russell.

No harm in sending someone an email. :)

Regards
Dave

Fishing is Life the rest is just Details

I have on occasions sent emails, but I just have had taht queston going through my mind for a while and decided to just put it out there.

"I don't think anyone here would direct others to a shady operation."

It's a shame that people can be so naive. What is stopping someone from making up a name, adn every single post they make points a person to ABC suppliers, which they are affiliated with? Its' bad enough that a few sponsors have been shady over the years, adn had to be kicked off and had lawsuits filed against them.

Sponsors pay for the forum, that might be why they charge more than non-sponsors, I dunno. I thinkit's really shady of someone to even consider posting a place ot get a lower price on a thread where people are recommending buying from a sponsor, considering all the forum helps people the least you would expect somoene to do is want to promote those who keep the board going, not save someone they have never met 45 cents on a reel seat.

I definitely wouldn't try to undercut a sponsor over 45 cents. but if I can save 10 dollars on a 25 dollar real seat, I need to know. That being said, I personally would not direct anyone to a business with questionable service regardless of the savings. As I said I respect the sponsors, but I can not afford to always use them, and I have a strange feeling that a few others probably can't either. Why should we not give someone the option of saving a few dollars if it is possible to do while still receiving quality service as they would with any of the sponsors.

Why would you want to save someone you do not know $10 on a $25 seat?

YOu posted here 61 times, both answerring & asking questions, how much have you read and learned? Why wouldn't you want to support the sponsors who support this forum, who enable you to ask, answer, adn learn more about Rod building?

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with saving money, adn serchign for deals, sponsor orno sponsor - it's just the fact that you asked the questionin teh first place which has me scratching myhead, I would think the asnwer is common sense.

It is because I assume there are others, whether I know them or not, (that really isn't an issue with me) that are in the same boat I am. Whose funds are limited but they enjoy building rods. We are having this discussion even though, I know that anyone here can go to either Johnny's pond or Mud Hole and probably get the best deal they will find on most things they need anyway. The question was mostly hypothetical I have only seen one situation where I have felt the need to direct another member elsewhere, and I did send him an email, and because I am told there is no rule against it I will say, It was when the guy was looking for a UL3 seat with graphite insert. I emailed him and told him that Cotes fly shop had them. He had said he could not find one on a sponsor site but knew they existed. I have had nothing but good experiences with them and have frankly been impressed with there service. But they are not a sponsor so I did not think I could mention them. This got me thinking and prompted me to ask this question.

I have been buyingcomponents for over 20 years (a lot longer than I've been aware of this board) and I don't think that I've ever seen a situation like a $10 difference in a $25 reel seat. In fact, with the competiveness and low profit margins in this craft, I'd be hard pressed to find a price difference even remotely like that. range.
"I personally would not direct anyone to a business with questionable service regardless of the savings" I have no doubt of that but, like Billy said, there are many that would. It would be foolish to think that everyone that visits thi.s, or any other, forum are who they say they are and don't have a personal agenda. There are many of us who, in the past, have submitted payments to vendor and then have them "dissappear) with the money. At least here, I know that the vendors are honest in their dealings or they will be removed!
As far as I know, there is only one vendor whose name is not allowed, along with the @#$%& sites

In my opinion, that is a GOOD thing. Why would a legitmate company want to sponsor a site that directs readers to an @#$%& site? Is that @#$%& site going to provide you with any of the benefits that this site does? At least with the vendors on the left, I know that I can call or e-mail them at anytime to ask them a question.

Everyone likes to save money but as far as buying retail, can just anyone buy groceries, gas, fishing rods, etc., wholesale if they aren't in the business? If you have a lecitimate custom rod business, you can buy wholesale from most of the vendors but you may be surprisedd wiyh the savings.

If you owned a local bait/tackle shop, would you allow someone to stand in YOUR store and direct people to Cabela's??

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Also If someone says they have found something for a given price on line, (not sale price) Johnny's pond will match that price or beat it if they carry it. So, I am really not trying to undercut or take away from any sponsor and I am not thinking about starting any threads advertising an outside vendor, I just wanted to know really whether I could mention another vendor if someone was looking for something and I knew where to find it otherwise but could not find it on a sponsor site.

Mike I do agree with not advertising the @#$%& sites, and I don't necessarily disagree with any of your points. I was saying that I go through the @#$%& sites some, not that they should be advertised or promoted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2008 01:48PM by Cody Vickers.

Cody,

The best thing you can do is let them know you might have a better deal for them and ask them to email you. This way you can share your information and let them decide if they wish to pursue it. If they do not contact you then they were obviously not interested. It is about sharing your information with out taking away business from those that pay to put up their adds here. Any business that is willing to pay the money to be a sponsor should get preferential treatment over others who will not pony up the cash! Cudos to any buisness that is a sponsor on this site, as I to will be in the future. When I am I respect the fact that I will get that same treatment for putting up the cash as a sponsor. If there was no real benefit they why would any one pay the money? Advertising is all about wether the money required is worth the return. This site as well as many others respects and cherishes those who make their site possible. Without the faithful sponsors these sites would not exist.
I would suggest to you to send your email and those who wish will contact you will. If you leave it at that, no one will be upset and this thread can end peacefully. I am actually supprised it has lasted this long.
I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in and hopefully this conversation can cease to exist any longer.

Have a wonderful day.

Matt White

I know Tom doesn't need me to come to his rescue here, but he has mentioned on here many times about sponsor's contacting him complaining about non-sponsors being referred to. Bottom line is, the sponsors pay the bills here, and I can see where they would be upset at non-sponsors getting free advertisement in a forum that they pay for. This holds true whether you are afilliated with them or not. My suggestion to anyone is: if you have a source for something that can be found at a non-sponsor vendor then just send that person an email.

Bill in WV



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2008 01:52PM by William Bartlett.

I don't have any place I just want to tell everyone about, As I said before it was only that one situation that brought this to mind. I have at times seen people tip toeing around naming vendors on a couple of occasions that I can not even recall well enough to direct you to the thread. And you are right, Tom probably doesn't need any defense, As I said I respect him and the sponsors and the way he runs his site, I just wanted a little clarification on this area of the rules. I now feel like I have that and the thread should be able to end peacefully.

And I will always refer anyone to a sponsoring site before I even suggest that I have another option or a better deal. I had just been under the impression that the name of any other vendor not a sponsor was forbidden on the site, that was what I could not understand, now that I know that it is only a couple, I understand.

Truce Everyone????

Matt,
Why would this discussion about the site rules and non-sponsors need to "cease to exist"? The conversation has been civil and informative.
Sharing of opinions and information is what this site is all about. There are more & more registered members and unregistered lurkers
finding their way here every week and I bet many of them would have the same question as Cody about the rules.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Raymond,

The only reason I feel like it should cease is for the fact that the simple truth has been stated more than once. I just personally feel that paying sponsers trumph all other companies. If you wish to share others with members then do so, but so in private email. I do not feel that more needs to be said is all. What more can be said that will explain it better than that? The longer a simple thread like this exists the more annoyed many get. I have seen the most simple question turn into an angry bashing just because it doesn't stop while it is still civil and the question has been answered.
Several others have stated in different ways the same thing I have. Feel free to do it, but do it in private and not in the room. Sponsers are the only names that should be plugged in the forum. Others can be done privately if you like, but if you pay your respects to the sponsers you will not do it in the room.

Thanks,

Matt White



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2008 03:09PM by Matt White.

Matt,

As far as the rules go I am in full agreement. Make no mistake about that. However, if one reads the rules at the top of the page there
is no mention of users not being able to mention or post links to non-board sponsoring vendors. So, some folks not familiar with how
forums like these work would not know about the "common sense" issues unless they are openly discussed like what is going on here
or someone sends them an email or PM after the fact. Over the years I have received a couple of those emails myself simply because
of some of the "grey area" within the common sense protocols and my lack of understanding them at first. Annoying or not, discussions
like this one are simply necessary from time to time if nothing else because of the growth of new users.

Cody,
Thanks for bringing this up!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

In some cases the sponsor has other sit. connections. sponsors pay the bills. With all the sponsors listed, Where or why would anyone want to go to a none sponsor. Also if you can find a cheaper price from a none sponsor can you get the service these sponsors give you. I persoally know know of a big box store that sells rod building products. Their service @#$%& and by the time you pay s&h charges I think you pay more. Just my 2 pennies
Good Wraps Bob

Cody

If you want to get every day low prices get a resale lic. you won't have to spend a lot of time looking and when you save that extra $$$ at least you will have that same person there to help with any problems you might have with any defects on a product (God Forbid) that will save more in the long run,i have found it works. My simple 1 or 2 cents worth.

Tim,
I think you missed the point of Cody's question.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..