Hello All!

I am building a 6' 6' casting rod, with a simple spiral, for a non-paying customer (relative). He reels with his right hand. St. Croix 2C66MHF, 10-20#, 3/8-1oz. lure, Medium Heavy power, fast action. No knots to be passed. Mono line to be used. Rod is for spinner fishing for bass in Northern Wisconsin.

The reel will mostly likely be a Garcia 4600 CB, but I don't have one for taking measurements, and such.
I will probably be using single foot flys in a size 6 or 5 for my runners. And casting guides for my stripper and my 180.

My questions:
1) What size size should my butt guide be?
2) What size for the 180?
2a) Can I go right to the runners after the 180, or is it better to put in one more in-between size?
3) Am I to understand that the bumper is so non-critical that I could use a SF 3.5, or the outside of a snake guide for my bumper?
4) Would micro guides be a better choice for my runners? What size? How does that effect the other guides?
5) Do I spiral left or right (looking from the butt)?


Thanks,

George Forster
Fort Collins, CO

I've done up a few spiral rods lately.

I would use a 16 stripper, then an 8 fly guide as the bumper, then a 10, 8, and the rest 6's all fly guides and do the Forhan lock with each. I did a 6' 6" rod for fluke similar in power to yours and wrapped the guides and went fishing with it w/o epoxying them. I used a shimano Tekota 600 or Tica SP 248 on it, so with your reel, a 16 should suffice. You may even be able to do down to a 12. No problems, and the guides only shifted very slightly when I got stuck on the bottom a few times. I don't really think there is a need to go with micro's for what you want the rod for. #6 is a nice size; small enough, but not so small they they are a pain to wrap or prep correctly. I am right handed and spiral to the left.

I do mostly bass rods and I would say a size 12 for the butt guides is more than enough, you could probably even get by with a size 10.. From what I have seen on how most bass fisherman use their rods, I stick with double foot guides for the butt and bumper guides, they seem to hold up a bit better and odn't get bent up as bad. Personally for the bumper, I would go with a very small low profile double foot guide. I just like to keep the style of the double foot guides the same, to me it just looks better. If you really want to take weight off the top section of the rod, go with the micro guides. I have not tried them as of yet, but will soon. As far as the position of the bumper guide, I put it on the same side as the reel handle. When the rod is down on the deck of the boat, the handle most of the time ends up pointing up form the deck and so will the bumper guide. If the fisherman steps on the rod itself, then the bumber guide is not going to get messed up, that is unless he steps right on the guide and there is not much you can do if that happens.

My suggestion would be:

6mm double ft Alps guide for your stripper
5mm
4mm then
3mm’s to the tip.
Alps 6mm tip

I reel left handed, reel with my right hand, and spiral to the right.
I also use 3mm guides up to size 50 lb braid with ease.
I would not use a snake guide.

Yes the Micro’s might require a little more effort if you have not wrapped them before. But the results are more then worth it. Once you have worked with them a bit they are no more difficult then 6mm guides to wrap.

I do a lot of spirals for bass in the IA, WS and MN border area. My standard is a #10 double foot stripper then a #6 double foot for the bumper, #8 double foot for the bottom and #6 single foot with the forhan wrap the rest of the way. I top it off with a # 6 tip. Works for me but you may find another set up you like better.

Skip all the in-between guide sizes - you don't need them and they do nothing for you other than add a little bit of extra weight. Your 180 guide is the first running guide, make them all the same. You do not want the 180 guide to be larger than the rest of the running guides, in fact, if anything you want it one size smaller than the rest of the running guides.

The bumper guide is critical, if you expect it to perform its job (have you read the article?). The ring size is of no importance other than that it be able to pass your line and any connections you have, but it must sit very low to the blank. You can bend/adjust nearly any guide to sit right down on the the blank.


...............

I've gone to a 6mm SF stripper, 4mm SF bumper, 4mm SF running guides, and a 6mm tip on a number of bass rods this year. They perform great and have held up well this year on rods ranging from spinnerbait rods through flippin sticks. Only problem I've found is that they bend very easily! Gotta be careful with tossing the rod around the boat and rod locker.

Steve - the 4600 isn't a low profile reel. Is there a chance he could be needing a higher guide than that first 6? You could play with the spacing to make it work.

I build all single foots on most rods, micros as well, much like Steve's recommendation. You won't have a problem with it. It will be a much better bass rod IMO. If you buddy is rough on his gear, that bumper guide may take a beating. Smaller will help with that. Don't use a snake guide. The bumper is keeping the line off the blank.

I spiral to the right if the reel handle is on the right.

Darrell - try some 3s and see if you still have that issue as much.

Alex;
If the intent is to get the line to the bottom on the rod? and you use a higher stripper guide to push to line up away from the blank (and bottom of blank), then you are changing the angle of the line up then back down increasing side friction against the guides. Where as by keeping the line closer to the rod, the angle from top of spool through reel line guide to stripper guide is straighter and decreases side friction.

Now it may be different with the “simple wrap” which I don’t use. But I think it should work out about the same.
It’s a mater of keeping the line in the straightest path possible.

Alex,

Man....going to 4's was a quantum leap for me on bass rods--3's are tiny! Sixes now seem huge. Which 3's do you recommend? I've heard that some of the micro guides are just as thin and vulnerable to bending as 4J Alconites.

Speaking of the 4600 reel, I just delivered an 8' telescoping flipping stick (4C80HMF) to a guy that uses Abu 5500C's exclusively. I configured it, tested it, and built it bumper spiral with all 6mm SF guides. You're right about positioning the stripper to work with the higher profile round reel---the 6mm SF worked fine with the 5500c.

Darrell

Darrell;
I suggest using the Batson 3mm guides. To me the Fuji’s are thinner and bend to easily.
I've not had the first problem with the Batsons bending

I agree with Steve about the Batson guides. I really like them.

Steve -

I see your point. I was brainstorming and throwing out an idea. I typically use low profile reels so the height isn't an issue. I haven't measured the difference btwn a low profile and something like a 4600 or 5500.

Depending on where you space that stripper, I see that impacting how much the guide pushed the line away from the blank. He could go with a 6 further out, or something larger closer to the reel.

I'd really have to play with it to see how that came out. .

I'll likely give the 3's a try. I may have to hire a contract wrapper that has younger eyes and smaller fingers! Wait..........how about threadless wraps on micro guides? Tried that yet, Steve?

I have thought about it but not tried it. My concern is that with the feet being so small there is not enough material to create a strong enough joint to hold up over time.
So I decided to leave that one up to Bill Stevens.

What Tom said: I did it and it works beautifully. I even used a single foot #8 guide as my stripper and all 4mm guides after that...even at the tip top. No problems.

Questions about strength? I had my doubts at first, too. I took this simple spiral to Canada this summer and caught many lake trout in the five to twelve pound range. Sixty feet of water. 1 oz. jig. The rod performed flawlessly. Casts great, too, when I wanted to.

Try it the way Tom said with only two guide sizes and you'll like it.

Les

Proper clothing is required at this dance!

A black regular nylon Topped With 2 Coats Fresh Permagloss + 1 Coat 1.5 Hr Aged Permagloss

Prefer running 180 micro 3.1 Fuji due to thread holding serations on top of frame + 2L and 2B Forhan

3.8 Fuji split tube micro tip top.

Four guide straight line transition to side defined by line strip and angler technique. First three double foot nothing larger than 8 dependent on blank and technique. The fourth is micro and ends up nearly 180 in most cases.

Thanks for all the input, guys!

Bill, I don't know what you said, but I like the way you said it. I think I had an old girlfriend that wore a split tube micro tip top, back in the 70's when we'd go to the discos.

Les and Darrell, good to know that Tom's method works so well. I'll probably go a similar route, but with double foots for the first 3 guides, then single foot flys.

Steve, you said you don't do the "simple spiral". Are your recommendations for a simple or some other spiral?

Tom, I haven't read "the article". I just became a subscriber a few weeks ago, and when I look through the index of back issues, there seem to be more than a few articles on the topic. Can you tell me which issue has the article to which you refer?

Mike, I really appreciate the sugesstion of putting the bumper on the same side as the reel handle.

For those using micro runners and size 6 tip: Why not go with a top that has the same size ring as your runners?

Steve, Alex where would you locate the stripper, understanding that I don't have the reel in my possesion. I have an Amabassador 5000. Would that get me close on my set-up?

George - I believe the largest tube size they make in a Fuji for a 4mm ring is 3.9. So either go with a larger top or manipulate the micro tip to fit a larger blank than intended.

I know personally I just prefer the ease of using a tip with the correct tube size. Another option is to use a single foot guide as the tip top.

If I remember right, those two reels are about the same size. If they are, using the 5000 during your static test placement, you should be fine. I say that just now thinking I know there was one of the old abus that was significant'y smaller than the 5000, 5500, and 6500 - was that the 4600? - it may not be enough of a difference to matter - most of my builds are done using a low profile trion - spare reel I have because I rarely have my customers reel because they are using it! Haven't had any issues.

Smaller tip top ring and presence of bracing on tip top tubes on tip top assists is lessening looping and hanging of line on tip top. Very strong attachment and quite easy to do with a little practice.

I hear that Bill.. I just haven't mastered it yet.