Like many or most of us, I started out building rods with virtually no knowledge about the craft. One of the very first things I learned, though, was glue up can be a real hassle -- if you're not careful, you can get epoxy everywhere -- your hands, your bench, your dog, your spouse -- and if you don't do glue up right, you're going to be disappointed in your finished rod. Few things in rodbuilding are as disappointing as looking at a handle assembly you worked very hard on and seeing an unsightly glue line between the reel seat and an expensive cork grip.

I made more mistakes than most, I think, but I've learned a few things along the way, and I'll share what I've learned in the hope that maybe it will save others some mistakes. Here we go:

- Forget about masking tape or drywall tape. Masking tape, for this purpose, is a terrible material to begin with, and while drywall tape is slightly better, I found that slathering epoxy all over it to get it to take a reel seat ALWAYS resulted in a terrible mess that was a real hassle to clean up. I can't tell you how many times I made a mess because of the drywall tape, and later found hardened epoxy that I had missed when I tried to clean everything up.

- Use Flexcoat Polyurethane arbors on your reel seats. The first time I tried one (I'm almost embarassed to admit this), I tried to ream the inside of the arbor first (i.e. before I attached it to the reel seat) ,and I ended up with a useless handful of dust. I figured the arbors were no good, and went back to making a mess with drywall tape. Someone here suggested (again, this is so simple that I'm embarassed I didn't realize it myself) epoxying the arbor to the reel seat first, and when I tried this, it was a revelation: attaching a reel seat doesn't have to create a sticky mess! These arbors fit reel seats very well, and are a cinch to ream -- they shape much, much more easily than cork -- and turn what used to be a real chore into a breeze. I used to dread the masochistic ritual I did with drywall tape, and now attaching a reel seat is a piece of cake. The Flexcoat arbors cost a couple of bucks apiece, but they're way worth it.

- When dealing with a two-part epoxy like Rod Bond, work in small batches. It might make sense to do a bunch of epoxying projects at once, but if you do so, mix a small batch of epoxy for each individual project. Mixing a big batch of epoxy creates haste (see below), which results in mistakes, which means you're going to get epoxy where you don't want it to be.

- This sounds obvious, but take your time. Most of the mistakes I made working with epoxy were because I went too fast. A lot of times I went too fast because I had a vast blob of epoxy waiting to be used, so this goes with the above point. Work with small batches of expoy, take your time, and be judicious in applying the epoxy, and you'll likely have very little clean up to do when your handle is assembled and the glue is drying.


Free advice is worth what you pay for it, I guess. But I know that a lot of newbies read this board, and maybe some of this will help. Feel free to add any of your own tips for avoiding what I affectionately refer to as "The Gooey Mess."

Very good points!! Thanks, Chris

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Hahaha, the Gooey Mess!! I have several shirts, old tracksuits, and even some better pairs of shorts and trousers that have been ruined by liberal application of epoxy adhesive, rod finish, superglue, etc....

Now, I haven't used the Flex-Coat arbors for all my builds, but even with masking tape, steps can be taken to minimise mess and get good assembly. First, do not mix any epoxy until everything dry fits well, right where you want it to sit. Second, have your alcohol and wipe rags ready, because the Gooey Mess is a tough little cuss to get out. Third, mix small amounts, and glue up in instalments, unless you have grip clamp, etc, set up. If you do, make this the third step, then mix and set up the grip a piece at a time. If you have to try and glue everything up in one hit, use a slow set epoxy, and slow down!!!! Take your time: the rod's not going anywhere. Do NOT use 5 minute epoxy for anything more than a tip top or maybe a butt cap!!!

These days on light rods I make cork arbors, with composite cork sheeting rings, same as my cork grips. My ergo-skeletons are integrated seat and arbor setups, glued up, fitted to the seat, shaped and finished, then reamed and glued to the seat. For standard seats, I sometimes still use tape, but keep the gaps between tape bits small, and make sure there the ends of the seat are filled with epoxy (overhang of about 5 mm to the tape). Adds a bit of weight, but also seals the ends from water intrusion.

Very important: once all is done, glued up and setting, don't walk away until the stuff is getting tacky. Check frequently to maintain alignment, clean up seepage and spots you may have missed. That little cuss loves to poke his head up right at the last minute, when you are in front of the TV gluing your epoxied bum to the couch with a brew in hand. Stay a while, checking the rod, yourself and your clothes and tools. You'll go through a lot of rags and alcohol.

Very timely post. I was on the phone discussing this very matter when you made the post.

Another suggestion would be to use a reel seat that does not require any arbor at all.

[www.swamplandtackle.com]

We are currently dealing with a situation where builders are using extreme measures to reduce overall build weight.

Things like shortening barrels, cutting out sections of seat flats, removal of grip inlets and the use of two piece seats is growing.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

We are getting to the point that there is very little surface area to bond the seats to the blank.

It will be essential that surface preparation and the use of a strong pliable adhesive be employed to insure that the joint is as strong as possible.

Just before I saw this thread I discussed this matter with Roger Seider with Flexcoat. Although it may increase build time he thinks that we should try the Hi Build Thread Finish for glue up of these types of rods. He stated that the adhesion properties of the High Build are the same as adhesives but the improved flexibility may provide a better bond. I am putting together three two piece seat rods and will use Hi Build, Flexcoat Epoxy and Rod Bond for field testing in abusive conditions.

Gon Fishn



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2008 02:10PM by Bill Stevens.

Thanks for all the tips guys.

Wow, those aluminum seats from Airrus were very cool. I wonder how well they work?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2008 12:43PM by Robert Russell.

Great thread.

I have been using drywall tape for reel seats. After the other night though think I have done my last. Ordered some graphite arbors that I got yesterday and will be installing this weekend - maybe tonight - on a fly rod. Hadn't thought about installing the arbors in the reel seat then reaming and installing. Going to give that try.

Eddie

The Flex Coat arbors are designed to be mounted in the seat first, and then bored in mere seconds with one of their pilot bits. Following this technique, you can generally bore and mount the seat in less than a minute.

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Chris,
Although you can glue the flex coat into the reel seat and then ream it if you like, it is really pretty simple to ream the arbor for a perfect fit in a few seconds.
I simply use a couple of different sized round tapered files to clean out and match the inside of the arbor to the blank.
I use a smaller one to get the hole in the arbor enlarged and then finish up with a larger (up to 1/2 inch tapered file. ).

I generally prefer to turn my handle glue up, after I have everything glued together on the blank.

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For those who haven't tried it before when gluing - try using your power wrapper to do a handle glue up on the blank.
By using the power wrapper to spin the blank, it is a quick job to glue up the cork rings.

I use 30 minute epoxy - to glue up the back grip cork rings, arbor, reel seat, and fore grip reel seat all in one glue up.
I let it set up for about 20 minutes, then take off the clamps and trim off any semi hard epoxy from places where you don't want it.
It is much easier to clean up any excess epoxy around the fore grip area, or reel seat area before the epoxy completly sets up.

Then, I set it aside over night to harden before turning the grip.

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p.s.
The advantage of using the power wrapper to spin the blank, is that you can use your foot to control the spin of the blank, leaving both hands free to apply the cork and position rings, and reel seat etc.
I generally turn the rod at about 20 rpm, when applying the glue so it goes on very quickly.

Take care
Roger

I used the reel seat arbors last night on a batson fly - my days of using sheet rock tape are over!!!

I reamed the arbor and fit to the blank and did not install in the reel seat first and then ream. One thing I learned though, was that the fit of the arbor needs to be very close to where it will be placed. I fit it within just a couple of inches where it would be glued up planning that the epoxy would let it slide in place. The last inch or so I was really appling pressure to get into place. Next one I will get closer.

The glue up was the easiest and cleanest I have had - no more tape for me.

Eddie

We size the arbor, glue it into the reel seat, and then ream it to fit. We use three tricks:

1) Using a round file, cut shallow grooves in the surface of the arbor. These will giove the glue more surface for a stronger setup. Using a triangular file, once you get the arbor mountes and reamed, cut shallow rgovves aorund the inside, lengthwise, to give more bonding surface to the blank.
2) When you insert the arbor into the seat, usually, it will be shorter than the seat. Use the extra space on either end for tennons that you cut into your rear grip and foregrip. You see these on preformed grips. They go inside the reel seat. They make a stronger bong for the whole unit.
3) Use a slow-drying epoxy glue. We have a bunch of the old AmTak 2-to-1 stuff and the usable pot life is at least 1/2hr. That gives us plenty of time to get it right. Andy Dear's gell is also very good for this.

Weight? Weigh the arbor and allow another amount for the glue. Now weight the lump of tape and glue that you create using that approach. Enough said, except I'll add this - if your customer can tell the difference betwee=n a reeel seat with a full-length arbor and one with, say, a three-section arbor, then either he's a brain sugeon with magic hands or he's lying. The "minimum weight" thing is a practial goal, not a religion.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

Russ,

Believe it or not, but those grooves actually result in a weaker bond (still good enough for a fishing rod, however). For the optimal bond, skip the grooves and concentrate on getting a nice, close fit of all mating surfaces.

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Most adhesives get the best bond from a thin coat between close fitting parts. Using adhesive as a filler in voids would result in a weaker bond (unless it's an expanding foam adhesive (different animal)

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Exactly - cutting grooves or spaces in the mating surfaces results in a weaker bond as you end up with less perfectly and less closely matching surfaces.

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