After an earlier post
Batson IMB944 - Frog/swimbaits??
Bob McKamey with custom tackle called me today and brought up a point that I had not considered when he was suggesting that using 3mm guides with 50 lb. braid might be a problem.

Bob’s concern is that with the gorilla hooksets (guilty) by some bass anglers when flipping and pitching.
The guide’s smaller thinner rings might not hold up to the abuse, and could break.
Bob is not sure this would or could happen but that it has just not been tested out to see the results yet

So after our conversation we decided to put the info up and advise people to do some experimenting and until they have been used for a while in this scenario let people know the concern and advice them to proceed at their own risk.

I will put them through extensive use/testing over the next two months to see and because this fore us in NC is when the big bass start moving up and hanging out in heavy cover and post my findings as I go.

Bobby Feazel may also have some input on this as he and his clients may be fishing this set up already or close

Excellent point Steve - and good job between you and Bob taking the time to think this through and post the potential possibility.

Steve

I stay pretty close to my customers and of course all my rods have the small guides so I will certainly know if there is any problems. Happy to inform the board.

Bobby Feazel

[www.shockwaverods.com]

Conventional wisdom will not open the box.

One double foot 7 and one 6 Alconites (fourth and fifth from tip of 10) ripped off of a Lami 847 spiral wrapped by Vern Ward who won the Appalachacola (Er sumplin like that) Florida Bass Tournament two weeks ago. The Threadmaster was still intact and did not split - the frames were bent almost to the vertical. This guy snickers at finesse - when they find the punch and swim bait rods these guys can trash a Sherman Tank!

Bill;
Were the inserts broke?
Did he say how he ripped them off?
I mean was he fishing or did he snatch them off pulling the rods out of the boats rod storage compartment?

It’s been my experience that when they’re laid down strait it has usually been the boat compartment or they were walked on, on the front deck of the boat usually while fighting a fish with a different rod or the partner steps on them while trying to net a fish. I have been guilty of both

If either these are the case. I would not mater whether they were 3mm or 33mm guides, would still be the same results.

I’m thinking that the smaller guides might even be better in this situation. Lower, closer to the blank, smaller target, and a smaller profile that may actually mold into the softer sole of the show before building enough pressure to bend it.

Inserts intact - frames completely bent and double foot frame split - yanking 5 lb fish and 10 pounds grass mat - on camera no less. This guy will ask you one important question - What is a net? If you know the blank it is one stout beast!

I've been guilty of swinging in a 5 pounder or two, but never with 10 pounds of grass.

I have some cold forged case hardened tungsten carbide guides with no inserts that might help, out side that I don't think anything will

Kind of hard to claim warranty problem when you been caught on film

they just want a little salad with dinner

I build for a local tournament angler. The casting setups are 1 dbl foot butt followed by SFs. They are either Alconites or Batson Zirconiums. I replace a guide or 2 on his heavy worm and pig & jig rods every season because the ring pops out. He has no clue or desire to finese fish. His motto is "cross their eyes and fly them to the boat". We agreed at the beginning that guide replacement is not warranty work it's a cost of tournament fishing. btw, he wins a lot of tournaments and qualifies for the GA Classic every year.

So far I have only built one micro guide rod with LSG 3.5’s, I will definitely be building more once I get time to build some rods for myself. My experience with this rod, and my experience designing parts for a living, I believe that the micro guides will be MORE durable than what we consider normal today.

As the frames get smaller they only get a little thinner, so the ratio of thickness to diameter goes up considerably. I am sure that the manufacturers do go a couple of gage sizes thinner on the frames, but they have to keep the parts manufacturable so there is a limit how far they can go, once the frames get very thin they become very hard to work with.

Another thing is that since the guides are much closer to the blank they have much less leverage trying to bend them. As we all know the main cause of guide damage is getting stepped on or getting caught in rod lockers.

As things get smaller their strength to weight ratio goes up considerably, remember an ant can lift 20 times its body weight.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

What Mike just said abotu the guides being closer and lower to teh blank and being harder to bend is definitely true. These guides are harder to bend, by a long wide margin, than a SF size 8. They are also so small, tehy are IMPOSSIBLE to step on.