I'll echo the sentiments I've seen here: the carbon fiber grip article in the current Rodmaker is outstanding. It's really opened my eyes, and I think I'm going to give it a shot.

While reading the article and looking at the pictures, I kept thinking of surfboards. The article mentions that the process is similar to how surfboards are made, and what I couldn't get out of my mind when I finished was that the grip may be light and strong, and ideally suited for rod grips, but if it feels like the outer shell of a surfboard, how's it going to perform when it gets wet? As anyone who's ever surfed knows, a surfboard shell is extremely slippery when wet -- that's why surfers put wax on them. With carbon fiber, I kept imagining a grip that felt like a bar of soap when it's wet, and that made me realize that one of the benefits of cork is that it sticks to your hand very nicely, even when wet.

So how do they feel, when wet and dry? Is there a texture that will allow you to maintain a grip without too much pressure when the thing gets wet? Or will it in fact feel like a bar of soap?

A surfboard is a large, mostly flat object. It'd be hard to hold with your hands no matter what the surface was like. It's not made to be ergonomically friendly to your hands.

Consider this - hammer handles are still mostly made from painted or varnished wood. They're "slick" and yet when you drive past a construction site even in rainy weather, do you see hammers flying through the air? Of course not - the shape of the handle makes it easy to maintain your grasp on it, even when wet. The article on grip ergonomics covered what makes things hard to hold onto and surface slickness generally isn't one of them. It's the size and shape that counts the most.

I've been using these grips for some time now and they feel great, are easy to grasp and require very little effort to hang onto. But that's because of the way I sized and shaped them. A bar of soap produces a "lubricant" when wet. Even so, turn a bar of soap into a full wells fly grip and try it again - it won't be all that hard to hold once you have it in that shape. And of course, grips don't product their own lubricant when wet. I think this is really a non-issue in most practical fishing situations.

Certainly there are many things you could do to increase the tactile feel of these, or other grips. You could knurl or texture the top coat over the carbon fiber. You could cut ridges into it. If you look at the grip 3rd from left on the cover you'll see an orange and black composite skinned grip that has "texture" cut into the underlying foam core. This is just one more thing you could do, if you wanted, to enhance the grasp of the grip itself. But I think once you start playing with them you may find all that unnecessary. I do thank you for bringing it up and should have addressed this concern in the article (did I?).


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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 10:17AM by Tom Kirkman.

You might have brought it up Tom, but if you did I missed it. Thanks for the reply; I'm still going to try to form a couple.

I very much like the notion of these grips as a replacment for cork grips on fly rods. But my fly fishing is done entirely in the surf, and the gear tends to get wet. This is the reason I like cord grips on surf rods; it gives me a nice textured surface to hang onto. But I'm definitely going to try monkeying around with these -- there's a long, cold winter staring us in the face -- and I'll be sure to report anything I discover here.

I probably forgot to add something on this in the article. Sorry.

I'm sure that these grips might not be perfectly suitable for certain applications but think that you and other guys may find little things you can do to them to make them entirely suitable for such applications. Keep us informed.

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Chris;
I have been using the graphite tubing, like what is made by Batson and Lamiglas since the 80's with out any grip problems. The only difference with this system is that there will be more of a textured finish to what you are doing and that the handles can take any shape you choose as opposed to the straight tubing.

With the graphite tubing I've used over the years, I have never had a problem gripping them whether dry, wet, or below freezing, in fresh or salt water applications. Now I only build bass rods. But have many times taken them salt water fishing on the beach, peirs, and in boats.

Chris.....I spent many happy hours in the surf along Mad River Beach and Gold Bluffs Beach.....You ARE the Nor Cal dude right?

I do not subscribe to the magazine but from what I am gathering here on the board you could make a mold for your personal grips with any texture or surface you like or in any shape for that matter.

Derek L. McMaster
Rohnert Park, CA

Born to Fish, FORCED to Work

Steve - maybe you can comment on this as well- when I built my last house I told my plumber that I wanted non-skid showers & tubs. I was ticked to see him installing units that had slick floors. He explained that the surface looked slick, but had a water break-free surface (where have we heard that before children?) that was actually safer (less slippery) than the older styles with raised bumps.

Chuck

I've applied finishes over a variety of cork, wood, bark, etc. using tru-oil, PG, TM, and various urethane projects and none of these have been slippery when wet, sweaty or otherwise.

I will also give this a try later in the winter. I have used the graphite tubing quite a bit on a variety of different rods. I have not noticed, nor heard any complaints, about the tubing and slippery handling. I have heard from several people that the tubing is much colder on the hands during the winter steelhead fishing. Other than that, people like it, it's light weight and it looks good.

Joe Douglas

Thanks for the feedback, guys. It'll be fun to try this.

By the way, Derek, I am not the No. Calif. guy. I fish South Jersey, which is about as far from California as you can get.

Chris;
Were in South Jersey?

Chuck;
Yes there have been a lot of products incorporated in tubs to make them safer including "water break surfaces" But actually its more like a slight suction between your feet or body parts and surface, because of the way it's finished that prevents slippage, There are even antibacterial materials being use in tubs now that kill germs that come in contact with the surface.

I have to be teh oddball here - I had them on a ligh tSW rod and I hated them. THey were not slick, but at the same time tehy were not nearly as comfortable as a rod with cork or EVA. I've cut them off the rod and will be re-wrapping it when I get a chance with cork.

Keep in mind, that relying on what I like, or someone else likes has no bearing on what YOU like. I decided to build a rod and find out for myself, for the type of fishing I do whether I like them or not. Everyone should do the same.

Take a look at the text of the US Patent for the Control Stick on heliocopters.

"The hand grip is conformed to the shape of the human hand, having contours for the hand and thumb. Indentations for the fingers may be added optionally. The grip will be made of or coated with a phenolic material which inhibits sliding of the hand, and provides superior grip feel and comfort. Optionally ridges or grooves in any suitable pattern may be formed on the grip material further to inhibit sliding or similar unwanted movement of the hand."

If we all get a grip they probably will not all be the same. Different strokes for different folks.

I will be blunt....

I hate them!

Prior to the last issue of RodMaker, nobody has had these grips on a rod other than myself, Andy and Bill Colby. I would wager a fortune on that statement.

Folks may have had TN handle tubing on a rod, but not these contoured composite skinned grips. If they have they've been keeping them a complete secret and have never written about them nor taken any photos of them.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 10:10PM by Tom Kirkman.

I would love to try the "carbon fiber" contoured shapely handles on a float rod. I used the Tenn. graphite tubes and hated them. But these would be different and would work well I assume.

They are similar, yet different.

I never cared for carbon fiber TN handles personally, but I have not and will not use anything other than these composite skinned grips, or flocked grips, from last year forward. They suit me and what I do. Others will have to try them for themselves and see what they think.

Cork, EVA and Hypalon all still have a place in rod building, but a new kid is on the block and will make serious inroads in the near future.


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Always good to try new products and materials. And....to think out of the box like so many of you guys do!!!

Paul

I'm constantly worried that we're still missing something that would make our rods even better than they already are. There is no end to the improvements we can make if only we keep trying new things. The next great advancement might just come from a first time rod builder who didn't know you weren't supposed to do certain things, or who didn't know that certain things have always been done a certain way.

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This fishing rod business stuff is quite perplexing. It is a sad thing that the reputation of a few production rod companies is the prime driver for the economics instead of the improvements that can be made to enhance form and function. For most buyers a rod must have the standard conventional appearance. I guess in the fishing rod business the old addage should be ammened to read if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it is a QUACK!

The classic example of this is a flocked grip. Put a rod with cork and flock the same size on a rack and let people come an pick on up - they will pick up the cork every single time and make a comment that they do not like that black stuff without ever picking it up. Get the same guy in a boat and let him fish with a flocked grip and he will quickly change his mind.

Maybe you need to do a carbon sleeve that looks like a poor quality of cork - than maybe the only thing that they can complain about is the filler not falling out!

Gon Fishn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2007 11:30AM by Bill Stevens.