Hey Everyone,
As I am very new to rod building I do have a question. I almost feel that I’m a novice in training because of this addiction and this site.
So as I’m learning I do have a question, what is the difference between a fiberglass fly-rod rod and comparable graphite one? (Other than the obvious, weight).
I see that many people are paying big bucks for fiberglass rods. I do understand that a bamboo rod has the quality of being hand split and tapered from a “weed”. (tolkin cane (sp?)). I can truly appreciate the art in those rods. But, fiberglass? It feels heavy and is soft IMO. I guess that is why it’s like a bamboo rod…right? Just not sure. Aside from the quality of the taper, is fiberglass better than graphite or other materials?

Harold,

Some the newer fiberglass blanks are much lighter than their predecessors, though not as light as graphite.

Many anglers like the 'feel' of fiberglass. That slower or 'softer' feel is kind of relaxing to fish with, and it's perfect for small streams or ponds, dry flies or little poppers, and trout or panfish. A competant caster can make them perform almost as well as a graphite rod.

Like any fly rod, the quality of the taper is paramount, and much of that is subjective. What feels right to me or you might not be correct for another.

All that aside, fiberglass is neither better nor 'worse' than graphite. It's just different. Many folks like it. Others don't care for it too much.

Good Luck!

Buddy Sanders

Buddy, I have a question about that. I too used to think that all fiberglass rods were "slow", but as I now understand the relationship between a blank's diameter, wall thickness, and composition I'm not so sure. Isn't it possible to design a fiberglass blank with a fast action? I'm guessing this isn't done very much because it would be too heavy, but I'm really not sure.

Tom,

I own a couple of older fiber glass rods, although not fly rods, that are VERY fast action rods and aren't overly 'heavy'. Like any rod blank material, those who know how can make whatever action they require.

One in particular, and old St. Croix spinning rod, was designed for fishing plastic worms and is very fast, incredibly light for it's time, and featured a 'folding' first guide (I think so it would slip into a rod tube or sock easier, don't really know 'why' it's there, but it's kind of neat). This rod was the lighest rod I'd ever owned at the time, and one of the fastest action spining rods I ever saw made from fiberglass. Caught lots of nice bass with that rod.

Sabre made some fast action glass rods that many bass fishermen used for worm fishing that were designed with very fast tapers. The Sabres were 'state of the art' for their time, and while heavy by todays standards, were great rods to fish with back then.

What we are seeing in the fly rod market is a resurgence in the percieved value of some of the older glass rods. Sort of a 'poor mans' cane, many of these older, softer rods are finding new life from those that want to fish with a slower casting stroke. Some current manufacturers have seen this, and are trying to find some business by catering to this market with 'new' glass rods that are lighter than the older ones (still a bit heavier than graphite, but much lighter than cane) and feature newer tapers and components geared towards todays lines and fishing styles.

I have a couple of vintage glass rods that are fun to fish with. I really prefer either graphite or cane, but once in a while I'll break them out and play around with them. Theree are some things they can do better than either graphite OR cane.

Buddy Sanders

i fish with glass almost exclusively now. most of my fishing is small stream work where the longest cast is 30 feeet or so. i also fish a lot of pocket water where i might need to cast accurateley with just my furled leader and some tippet. glass does this very well. at the same time it usually has enough power to reach out 45-50 feet although i question the need to do that on most of the streams i fish. most of my fishing is done with rods from 3-5wt and lengths of about 7-8 feet. i think those perameters are the sweet spot for glass. is it better than graphite. no. but, for some reason i have not picked up any of my graphite rods in a couple of seasons now. maybe i'm just a rebel.

besides what the others have written (which i agree with), i think the biggest historical difference between fiberglass and graphite is the marketing and advertising by the maufacturers started 20-30 years ago. there are faster actioned glass out there from what i read but very VERY small in proportion to what's available in graphite. graphite's where the money's at and so that's what's been deemed as a priority worth pursuing in development by manufacturers, <<in my opinion>>.

eric
fresno, ca.

This is a really great question.

Graphite is faster, stronger, stiffer and for the same purpose much thinner.

But new glass rolling methods are also very close.

Plus they are a lot less expensive.

You can buy several glass blanks for the price of a graphite one.

It really comes down to that old question of what you want, what you intend to do with your rod and may be how good you think you are.

I build high end gear. But a lot of my personal fishing gear is fibreglass. I go fishing to catch fish.
Not to pose to anyone about the technology in my hand. Most of the time I am on my own and I only keep a fish if I feel like a feed. The stick I catch it on does not matter to the fish.

I personally think graphite is the best. But if you have a wall full of rods that have to work for a living then you have to think of replacing them and that can become expensive with top end graphite.

I prefer a workmans tool for myself.

Sorry to all the "EXPERTS" out there. I have only been doing this for 37 years.

Paul

I fish therefore I am.
www.hookeduprods.com

Action is independent of the material the rod is made from. The very fastest action fly rod I own is an old Shakespear President Wonderod. It's fiberglass.

But your first statement about weight being the obvious difference results in a myriad of differences between the two. In a nutshell, weight per the stiffness is the main difference between glass and graphite and results in a number of other differences that all trickle down from that first major difference.

Because graphite is lighter per the same stiffness, the resulting rod can be more efficient - more of the energy you impart on the cast, strike, etc., can be used in those endeavors instead of being wasted on starting and stopping the rod. The graphite rod will react and recover more quickly, create less fatigue on the angler, and even make it possible to use a longer rod requiring no more physical effort from the angler than if he or she was using a shorter glass or bamboo rod.

Whether or not graphite rods are better than glass or bamboo rods depends on what you need the rod to do. If overall efficiency is your goal, graphite is going to be hard to beat. If toughness or the ability to take a beating and keep working is your goal, then glass might be your better bet. If cost is the only issue, then glass again might be "better." If using something that is more natural or traditional is your priority, then bamboo might be best. It all depends on what you're after in a rod.

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For most of my fishing on small trout streams (which I do a lot of) I fish fiberglass more and more. Its hard to find a moderate to slow action quality blank these days in graphite. That heavier, larger diameter blank gives me the impression of a lot more feel with casts within 20ft than any graphite blank and definiteltely gives you feel close to the bamboo rods (perhaps better IMHO) for these short casts. This is especially apparent when fishing lighter lines (2-4wt), where the blank weighs a lot more than the fly line.....you are feeling the rod load the rod more than the line load the rod and for short casts with no false casts, like my streams require, its all about feel when talking about casting accuracy. Small fish are a fun to catch on these rods and since they are mostly <8ft, weight isn't a big issue. And they are durable and cheap (or at least cheaper than bamboo). You can't ask for anything more in a small stream fly rod IMHO.

With fly rods I have found it is a very personal decision with my customer.'

I really like it when someone turns up with their favourite fly line and tries to match a blank to that line.

The next person with a different line will not like that build.

I really think it is not about what we build, but more about the individual we build for.

Hope this makes sense.
Paul

I fish therefore I am.
www.hookeduprods.com

William,

What you're feeling is the greater mass of the glass rod helping to load it for you. Try this, take a graphite rod that would suitable for use in your situation and load it with a line about 2 line weights heavier than what you normally use on it. Go 3 line weights up if you like. Now go out and try it again. I think you're going to return and say that you could really feel it load and that it reminds you of a glass or bamboo rod "feel." You just need to get the right line on the graphite rod for the distances you're fishing to gain back that "feel."


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Very true, Tom. I have experimented with "overlining" as you describe and came to the same conclusions.

I like to fish for trout with 3 and 4wt lines. This means I would need to start with 1 to 2 wt blanks to get that feel. There aren't many of those out there. I can do one of two things to acheive this feel (both of which I have done)........drop butt sections on graphite blanks or fish fiberglass......I fish dropped butt section graphite rods the rest of my time. Sevier Manufacturing's 4 piece blanks do especially well for this purspose. I still feel the larger diamter and fuller flex of the fiberglass blanks is superior, at least with the current supply of graphite blanks I have available to me. And I have durabilty questions with overlining ultra light lined graphite rod blanks.

When you overline graphite blanks at short distances you really aren't overlining them. You're just putting the correct amount of load on them. Let's take a 4-weight rod as an example. Consider that 30 to 40 feet of 4-weight line weighs about 1/4 to 5/16th ounce. That's what it was designed to be cast with. Now let's say you're fishing in close at 15 to 20 feet so you overline it with a 6 or 7-weight line. Well, 15 to 20 feet of a 6 or 7 weight line also weighs about 1/4 to 5/16th ounce. Not enough fly fishermen understand the relationship between line weight and line length. I wish the fly fishing industry did a better job in this regard (they do pretty well on most everything else).

Obviously if you're happy with your glass rods I'm not about to try and steer you away from them. What I said above about which is the "best" rod for anyone depends upon what they want to do and their own personal preferences. I just wanted to point out to folks that think they can't use their graphite rods in close because they can't feel them load that they probably don't have the right line on them for the distances they're trying to use them at.

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A 2wt graphite rod with a 2wt line fished at 20ft is actually underlined. The correct line for a 2wt rod at that distance would be a 3wt or even a 4wt line. I believe this is similar to what Tom is saying above.

True again, its more about invalidating blank warranties when I build and fish overlined rods with dropped butt sections. My E-glass lamiglas blanks are warranted, my sevier tiger eyes are not. If I ropped butt sections of any blank I would most certamly invalidiate the warranty. I have acheived a simular feel and identical performance to may glass rods (at least my S-glass diamondglass and scott fibertouch blanks, maybe not my E-glass lamiglas) with dropping butt sections from IM6 Tiger eye blanks. Graphite blanks are smaller diameter (more cork between your hand and the blank), weigh less, and recover faster (CCF) than glass blanks. These subtle differences do create a different feel. A feel I personally like less than glass. But yes, in terms of permformance of loading and unloading grains (measured by ERN) of line and flex as measured by AA, I agree I can and have done the same things with dropped butt section graphiteblanks that I have done with standard glass fly blanks.

The limitation is not the material, its mostly what the manufacturers are making with the material.