Tom or Dr. Bill can you help this guy??

Does anyone here use Dr. William Hanneman's "Common Cents System"?

I set up a jig today and measured 2 rods and a blank. The results were quite surprising to me.
The rods were;
Scott S3S 9ft 9wt 4pc
Sage SP 9ft 5wt 2pc
Gatti G4 9ft 7wt 3pc

All 3 rods measured to be a full line weight lighter than the manufacturers rating.

>The Sage action measured as low moderate (as I thought before measuring)

>I thought that the Scott to be fast action (I fished the rod for 3 years) but it measured as mid moderate.

>The Gatti blank (no hardware attached) felt even faster than the Scott but it measured as mid moderate action.

My conclusions;

>Manufacturers overate the line weight (I thought that they underated) I heard and thought that rods worked better if you used 1 line weight over the rating.

>Manufacturers tell you what they think will sell the rod not necissarily what it actually is.

> I don't want a true fast (tip) action rod they must be a real bear to cast.

Or---I screwed up the measurements and my results are wrong.

Any thoughts,
Don

Probably. But the important thing to remember is that there is no need to compare the objective and relative measurements of the CCS to the manufacturer's subjective opinion rating. The two aren't going to coincide, nor should they. The only objective and relative number you'll see on a commercially made fly rod is the length. Pity they see the value in that but not in using a similar system for rating action and power.

The CCS uses an objective system of degrees to measure rod action. The higher the AA (action angle) the faster the action will be. A rod with an AA of say, 72, will be faster than one with an AA of say, 65. You can call a rod with an AA of 68 a "mid-moderate" if you like, but the CCS doesn't call it anything. It just pegs the action with a relative number. The numbers do not lie and have no opinion, they are what they are.

A very fast action rod is not a bear to cast, in fact, it would be very pleasant and easy to cast, provided you have the proper line on it for the distance range at which you're using it. The same is true for any rod with any action.

Next up are the line weights. The CCS ERN is a power rating, not a line weight, although you can use the equation of ERN = ELN to correspond a suitable line weight to a rod for most average fishermen using the rod at average distances. But this does not mean that you must use that line or that such line will be the very best line for that rod at any distance.

You must keep in mind that fly line weight changes as the length of line beyond the tip changes. 30 feet of 5-weight line weighs less than 60 feet of 5-weight line. So when a manufacturer puts a number on a rod, it’s based on what the designer felt the rod would be used for and/or at a certain distance range. Often, this range is totally different than what the consumer is buying it for. That’s where so many problems creep into the picture and why some guys say that they can’t get their rods to load - they don’t have the proper line on the rod for what they’re trying to do with it. But that doesn‘t mean that the manufacturer’s number is wrong - only that he meant it for something different than you might. This thing about rods working better if you overline by 1 line weight is due to the fact that many manufacturers rate their rods for lines intended to be used at very long distances. If you don't fish at those distances, then you will likely do better overlining by 1, or even 2 line weights. But this isn't always the case with all manufacturers and provides another reason why the CCS is so valuable - with it you know exactly how much power your rod has.

What you can be sure of is this - a rod with an ERN of 6.2 is more powerful than one with an ERN of 4.3 and less powerful than one with an ERN of 8.0. Again, just like a ruler or a weight scale, the CCS is totally objective and relative and has no opinion.

The CCS ERN figure puts a power rating on the rod which you can then use to select the proper line for the range you plan to fish it. You will have to get used to what the numbers mean, just as you once had to learn what the inch, pound and fahrenheit  numbers meant. But it won’t take long. Use the CCS to measure some rods which you have now and know very well, that way, you’ll have some idea of how to relate to the AA and ERN numbers in the future.


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Tom,

Thanks for the quick response. It is obvious that I'm going to have to get more comfortable with CCS. It's going to be a great tool.




John,

Thanks for bumping me over.

Don

I hope I didn't make it sound more difficult than it really is - it's just a system of relative measurement. Once you get comfortable with how the numbers relate, you'll find it a very valuable tool indeed.

Dr. Hanneman often posts here in response to questions on his system. He'll also be in North Carolina in February for the ICRBE. He's available both days in-between seminars for anyone who has questions or needs CCS measurements taken of their rods or blanks.

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The numbers used on factory fly rods are not based on any standardized system. They are sort of helter skelter IMO and based on the invidual personal preferences of the designer. The CCS figures will be concrete and consistent across the board on all rods you measure.

I understand that the Common Cents ERN figure is not a fly line number, but the equation of ERN=ELN does indeed work exceptionally well for normal distances. It is a great place to start. If you cast closer than about 35 to 50 feet you can move up a line size. If you cast much farther than 50 feet you can drop down a line size. It may not be true for others but for what little fly fishing I do this seems to be very accurate.

Dr. Hanneman intended the ERN to be a relative power rating, but used a numbering system and dropped it at the precise spot where ERN = ELN would be an effective starting point for the average fisherman fishing average distances and wishing to match an appropriate line to his or her rod.

As you get further into the system and are able to relate the ERN and the AA together, you can do even more in terms of selecting the proper line or lure weight.


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