Hey William. . . My wife says that I started "a hobby that has gotten out of hand!" Like some of the other fellows comented, "it's your business and you can call it anything you want." My business is called Tiger Rods - "Custom Crafted Fishing Rods." I'm building a number of rods for Christmas presents for husbands, fathers and brothers. I'm guessing at most of the measurements. One thing is custom. . . that's the colors in the threadwork. I ask what's their favorite colors. Haven't had any complaints yet.

"Life is too short to fish with UGLY rods!"

"... but in all reality selling a hand crafted item to the highest bidder and many times at a loss, is damaging to all of us and shame on you if you can't grasp the concept."

Again, those not paying my bills haven't got much say in what I do when it comes to building rods. Every rod I've built in the last 10yrs has been given away to its new owner and I challenge anyone who's seen my work 1st hand to speak negatively about the quality of what I do. I no longer rely on rod building for income and it's unlikely that I ever will again. Attempting to profit from something I enjoy turned it into something I dreaded. So now I simply do what makes me happy and that includes giving away rods that would sell for hundreds if I were so inclined. If that's damaging to "all of us" then so be it.

Grasp the concept? Yes I can grasp the concept and basically it is that I'll allow my work to stand on its own merits and suggest that all builders do the same. I give away custom made rods because it brings me great satisfaction to place a top notch rod in the hands of an angler who might not otherwise ever have the pleasure of fishing with such a fine tool. For some it is the only custom made rod they will ever own. For others it is the beginning of purchasing numerous custom rods from others who build for a profit. Sorry if that's offensive to the "professional" builders out there, but it isn't about to change any time soon. If your rods are not selling for what you think they are worth, don't look to blame that on other builders. Instead look in the closest mirror and then take a good look at the rod you're currently working on.

A guy who willingly admits to building rods as a hobby should not be made to feel badly about doing so, nor should he be worrying about what he calls his rods. William, do whatever makes you happy and don't let anyone tell you what's right, or that you should be ashamed of what you are doing. If you are on the up & up things will go just fine; if you are indeed a shyster attempting to sell crap, it will catch up with you soon enough.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2007 12:30AM by Joe Hepp.

A few things:

1) I don't sell rods made from seeker blanks.

2) I only build fly rods and I have nothing but positive reviews so far. I'm not an expert builder, but have tried several different techniques for each part of the rod building process. I have learned from several rod makers, read rod maker, and have read several books, watched several videos, and a expereinced lot of trial and error on my own rods. I have expermented at lot with dropping butt sections and am comfortable with making CCS measurements. I do everything by hand (guide spacing, wraping, filing and turning cork) except reel seats and spend probably 10-15 hours per rod because I take my time, redo wraps often, and in general just naggle and redo things until they are perfect. I have used several of my rods for several years of hard use without a problem. While my builds lack intricate decorations and wraps that characterize many "custom" builds, they perform at least as well as good factory build.

2) What your rods go for on @#$%& has very little to do with the quality of the build. I have seen some beautiful custom rods go for disgustingly low prices. Some of these rods had beautiful magified macro photography of obviously fine craftsman ship. My rods went for little because I started the bidding at 99 cents, set no reserve, took crummy photos, and set my @#$%& ending times when most people were at work. And some of the rods were used (by me) before I sold them, further decreasing their value. Since I have learned to correct these things my rods have always gone for over the price of components. This was a big fustration for me, and came close to stop selling on @#$%&. I think most customers on @#$%& are cost, not quality driven, and that most custom rod builders would be better off not selling there. But its the only avenue I have, since its a low volume hobby for me.

3) I have, with my last several builds, donated through a service called missionfish on @#$%& 100% of my proceeds to conservation charities like The Nature Conservency and Trout Unlimited. I want to continue to do this, but will only continue to do so if I actually make money above the cost of components for these charities. Again, I am in a fortunate position being able to afford having rod-building as a hobby, and want to keep it a hobby.

I totally understand people trying to do this for a living being hacked off at people like me who undermine prices and reputation of "custom" rods. I have recieved several beligerant "questions" on @#$%& from other rod builders. I just can't stand to see all of these rods in my closet that deserve to be fished, especially when I can increase my charitable donations with my hobby.

Rich Handrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've seen so called "custom" rods on @#$%& and have
> never actually seen a bid on one!
>
> However - I get irritated when people infer that
> only a rod sold for a profit can be worthy of
> admiration and a "custom" moniker. I build for
> myself, friends, family. For myself, every rod I
> build, I sell to myself at cost :-), for family
> it's for cost of materials, for friends, it's
> basically the same, but with a bit added in to
> support my "habit" :-) Each rod I build is for
> designed for the particular angler and for the
> application they will be using that rod for. I
> use good quality componentry, and sound
> construction techniques to maximize each rod's
> performance - aesthetics are also important, but
> run towards the spartan side of things - I don't
> do deco wrapping, I just don't care for it. I do
> enjoy custom handle work and believe it can be
> aesthetically pleasing as well as performance
> enhancing - so I incorporate it into my work. Are
> my rods custom? You are darn right they are, and
> I label each one (thank you Decal Connection) as
> "Custom Built for Joe Smith".
>
> However - selling a rod on @#$%& and labeling it
> custom? That's not a custom rod, don't label it
> as such. It's not semantics, it's not splitting
> hairs, and it is important even on an internet
> message board. And if you don't see the value in
> the definition of custom, then why are you
> building rods in the first place?
>
> Truthfully, I would label them as handmade or
> handcrafted rods.
>
> There, I probably irritated BOTH sides of this
> conversation now :-)


RICH:

For ALL the reasons in your second paragraph why YOU call them custom, then he can and has every right to call them custom. Where he chooses to sell the rods has no relevance WHAT-SO-EVER in what many people perceive as "CUSTOM".

Because there is no "STANDARD" in the industry as to what "CUSTOM" is, it is and ALWAYS will be subjective. So therefore, it IS splitting hairs, and it is up to how a person interprets it. Period. No person on this board or anywhere has any right to tell this guy that they are not custom. Wait, yes, they do have the right (freedom of speech). My bad.

We just have to agree to disagree.

Respectfully,
Paul

This is one topic that really ***es me off sometimes!.....referring to the cookie cutter production rods advertized and touted as "custom". Many of these are mass produced same as calstar, seeker, etc.,(but often no where near the final quality) and the term "custom isnt just loosely used.....its blatently advertized as CUSTOM in bold letters all over the place...blatant false advertizing imo. The thing that bugs me the most about this is exactly whats causing the confusion that started this thread. Custom rod builders take pride in their work, no mater what the skill level, or the quality of the finished product. The quality or skill level isnt what makes it custom, its the motivation to make that individual rod, and the reason it was made that makes it custom....whether for artistic reasons, functionality, to fit a specific person egronomically, or to fit a specific application unique to an individual. The first rods I ever built werent anywhere near the quality I achive now, but nonethess I took pride in what i made, and to me at the time the quality was stellar, because it was made to be differnt or better or unique compared to anything I could buy off the rack... even if it was just a nicer color. That rod was intentionally built that way to be a one of a kind unique rod, regardless of whether it was for myself, to be given to a freind, or sold...that rod was purpose built for a unique reason, therefore I would consider it custom made. If i decided to duplicate that rod...and make 20 of them to sell..all pre made...then I would feel Im fraud for calling them custom made, because they are no longer specifically built to be unique to an individual, or unique within itself as an individual rod or a matched set of rods unigue to an individual. I have built a LOT of rods...ive worked for rod production companies, ive built customs....Ive owned a rod production business that produced a line of cookie cutter production rods, as well as offering rods custom built to an individuals specs, color and hardware. I now have a small home based rod shop wher i build custom rods to order, as well as do light production runs and outwrapping for rod companies. For me there is definitly a defined line for what I would call a custom rod or a production rod. Quality really has nothing to do with it...althogh the INTENT of building a custom is to produce a superior result in some aspect to a production off the rack rod, the overall quality is limmitted to the skill and experience of the builder, but regardless of the final quality, its still a custom made rod for what its worth.

A few times over the years, ive built custom rods designed and made to an individual customers specs, and for one reason or another the customer backed out, or couldnt pay for the rod....or Ive gotten got the creative bug and built a unique one of a kind rod for no particular reason other than I wanted to try something new. Would I sell and advertize these as customs? YOU BET!! Because they were uniquely custom built for one reason or another, whether for artistic experiment or to fit someones individual preference, they are still one of a kind, purpose built custom rods.

Calling a rod "hand crafted", "handmade", etc. really doesnt do the justice to a true custom....afterall...ALL rods are for the most part hand made, whether in a dirt floor factory in china or at a state of the art production facility in the USA! As far as i know, nobody has an automated machine that spits completed rods out of one end....lol

In a nutshell, I personally define a custom rod as a rod that has been intentionally built to be different than antything readilly available off the rack, or produced on a regular basis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2007 09:17PM by Scott Throop.

Scott,
I think the last sentence in your post is exactly on target. I often hear statements to the effect that a rod must be built for a particular person to be a custom rod. I do not completely agree with this. I think that a rod can also be built for a unique fishing application without any person in mind and still qualify as custom if it is better suited to that fishing technique than off the shelf rods. It seems to me that the key to a custom rod is that it is unique and better suited to either a particular individual AND/OR a particular fishing application.
I have a slightly different pet peeve than yours. I think that many custom rod builders are deluding themselves when it comes to what the rods that they are building are really worth. I think that rods that are built that are identical in every way to factory rods, same blank, same guides, etc. with the exception that maybe they have a diamond or chevron wrap on the butt or are wrapped a different color may very well be called custom if the builder chooses to call them that but they certainly are not better rods than factory rods and the builder that feels that because they have his or her chevron or diamond wrap on the butt that they are worth a lot more money is fooling them self. The rod is not worth a lot more to the fisherman, in fact, it may be worth less.

Paul,

I'll accept that - I certainly agree that it is open to personal interpretation. Our interpretations differ, and that's just fine with me. My definition of custom infers that a rod is built for a specific person or a specific reason. That reason can be performance, aesthetics, or even sentimental value. I'm an engineer - I work in black and white - LOL!! A rod that is sporting premade grips, guide spacing taken from a chart, masking tape arbors, and a chevron wrap is not a custom rod in my book - yet that type of so-called custom rod accounts for MANY of the non-factory rods out there. I'm not talking about here or on some other internet message board, I mean in the real world. Probably 95% of all guys who build rods never come on here, have never heard of Rodmaker, etc...

The rods I build for myself, I always seem to end up with something sentimental in them, a birch bark handle from birch I harvested on my parent's property, always finding a reason to inlay a 1930 year or Irish coin in my butt caps (my dad was born in 1930 and loved his Irish heritage) Ok, I'm a sappy engineer :-)

William - re-reading my original post, I hope I did not offend you, it was not my intention. Reading your posts, you sound like the type of builder (I'm also one) who is a hobbyist, yet takes alot of pride in his/her work. This is apparent from the fact that you read, study, try new things, push your boundaries, etc. My gut feeling/experience is that there are three classes of builders: professsional, serious hobbyist, and well, guys who put together components. I place myself in the second class, and you appear to be that type of builder as well.

Another thing needs to be mentioned , and maybe where some confusion lies, is that the minute you sell a rod that was produced with resale in mind, whether @#$%& or elsewhere, you have become a professional builder. You are then subject to legal and professional responsibilites. You MUST pay thge FET tax on that rod and you will be held to a higher standard.

Rich, you did not offend. I honestly started this post to find out what a reasonable majority of people think I should call my rods. I have always tried to follow Emory's philosophy - building a rod for me is about pushing performance or filling a gap in the market. I also appreciate those who highly personalize a well built rod for a specific customer. I have done this also, but it doesn't appeal to me as much. I guess I would say a custom rod is one that SUCEEDS in either of these endeavors, and will probably continue to advertise them as such, as it appears the majority feel this is OK.

Rich:

I see where you are coming from sir, and you stated your opinion very well-you engineers! lol Not all you engineers work in black and white...when I do fire inspections you guys think too much on areas too much! LOL Anyway, your from WI as I was born and raised in Racine...

Robert:
Once you sell a rod you build you are a "MANUFACTURER" according to the IRS code. Just because you build a rod, sell it, pay a tax does not have anything to do with being a professional IMHO. How you conduct your business, present yourself, and the way you take care of customers is what truly means "professional". Wait...I think I may be slicing hairs now...LOL

Peace Gents.
Paul

Point taken Paul. Well said.

Thanks for the heads up on the tax issue. To be honest, I don't want to spend time and money on tax attorneys for this and will probably stop selling rods on @#$%&, period, because of that issue, unless I can get the issue clarified by missionfish and they are willing to accept liability. Another option is to donate the rods directly to the non-for-profit, get the tax refund for the cost of the components, and allow them to sell it. This, of course, would only make sense if they sold the rods for more than the cost of components. Another option, which I have done before, is building in exchange for the customer making a donation to a non for profit, with the customer buying all of the components.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2007 07:35AM by William Zafirau.

No reason to spend money on tax attorneys. Read the article on the Sportsfishing FET in the online article and decide where to go from there. The tax was recently capped at a flat $10 (or 10%, whichever is less) so it's even easier than ever before to figure and file.

..................

Thanks Tom. I'll look into that.