Just started using non NPC thread and have just finished a small butt wrap for a hook keeper using Gudebrod A - Orange over a black St Croix blank

After applying Diamonite Color Preserver the color became mottled and old looking. Seems that this stuff made the thread transparent and the black is coming through.

I tested another scrap blank with the same thread using both Diamonite and Flex-Coat color preservative and both are doing the same transparent effect. However the Flex Coat dried brighter. But neither is acceptable.

I've used light NCP on black blanks or light NCP overwraps over black thread and have never had this problem.

Is this typical of the non NCP threads these days?

If you are doing a butt wrap with orange on a black blank it will be best to change the color of the underlying base. Orange is a devil to pack consistantly and tight enough and the motly look you are getting is typical. Consider underwraping the area with metallic silver and then apply the nylon over the top. You can apply a CP coat to the silver to hold it in place while you are wrapping the Orange over the top. If you do not use CP use less tension on the top and it will not pull through. Do not add a CP over the top and you will have a true orange that lights up in the sun. Another option that will work is wrap the blank with thin aluminum foil or paint it white.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2007 12:24PM by Bill Stevens.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

It's not the thread.

The "black" you see is coming through the threads where you didn't pack them well enough. You're also putting yourself in a tough spot trying to put orange over black. Imagine what would happen if you had a black wall and tried to cover over it with a single thin coat of orange paint. It would be pretty hard to do and have things look very nice.

I would use NCP orange on the base wrap if I were trying to cover a jet black blank. Use the darker regular nylon on top of that for the actual crosswrap.

I assume that you are not thinning your color preserver - remember, there is very little solids content in CP to begin with and thinning it means that you are putting mostly just water on your wraps. And water won't seal or color preserve anything.


..........

Here is a link showing the Nylon A orange the orange over silver J metallic -

Can you believe a LSU builder will stoop so low just to sell a fishing rod to people in Gainsville!

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Bill Stevens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a link showing the Nylon A orange the
> orange over silver J metallic -
>
> Can you believe a LSU builder will stoop so low
> just to sell a fishing rod to people in
> Gainsville!
>
>

Working up some test samples with a silver metallic under wrap as we speak. ......and it's orange and GREEN not orange and BLUE ....Go Canes !!!!

Nice work BTW and thanks for the info. This rod is for my 1st commission and I don't want to muck it up.

FWIW - if you look at the link I posted, you'll note the thread is wrapped directly over a black blank, and there isn't a hint of a blotch. If you were wrapping up a guide foot, that is usually where teh thread will seperate and the blotches appear. IF you are getting blotches on a flat wrap, you need to go back to teh drawing board and do some more practicing.

Billy Vivona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FWIW - if you look at the link I posted, you'll
> note the thread is wrapped directly over a black
> blank, and there isn't a hint of a blotch. If you
> were wrapping up a guide foot, that is usually
> where teh thread will seperate and the blotches
> appear. IF you are getting blotches on a flat
> wrap, you need to go back to teh drawing board and
> do some more practicing.
>
> NERBS - North East Rod Builders

What size thread did you use for the samples? Looks like C

I was using A Gudbrod and the wraps were very tight and tensioned properly.

Perhaps your Maderia is less susceptable to becoming transparent than Gudebrod

At any rate using silver metallic underwraps really adds to the brightness. I'll stick with that technique until I become more practiced.

Robert,

Try looking at your wrap through a magnifying glass and bright light and you may (or may not) be able to see that the blotches are caused by very small gaps in the thread . It doesn't take much as thread can separate a little when wet and not packed VERY tight and burnished!!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Robert,Another way to under coat is with chrome tape available at a local auto parts store.It is used to make fake rocker moldings.Adheres well and looks great with nylon thread and no cp.Kind of a candy apple effect.Its also easier to pack on as the threads slide easily.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

MAdiera BIlly 40 thread is smaller than Gudebrod size A, and it will darken just the same as Nylon. I agree the metalics under Nylon looks really asharp in teh sunlight, that's how I wrap my guides. I wouldn't use underwarps on light FW rods though.

Mike Barkley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robert,
>
> Try looking at your wrap through a magnifying
> glass and bright light and you may (or may not) be
> able to see that the blotches are caused by very
> small gaps in the thread . It doesn't take much
> as thread can separate a little when wet and not
> packed VERY tight and burnished!!

Imagettin old. I'm using a really strong OptiVisor with a focal length of about 4-5 inches and my thread work looks pretty tight. I guess I should come up to the show so I can see 1st hand what good work really looks like,

I'm gettin there slowly. Thanks for the feedback fellers.

I agree with Tom and Mike. I believe your problem is caused by not packing the threads teight enough and I would also burnish the threads. Burnishing well flatten the threads and help close any gaps.
Good Wraps Bob

Bob Balcombe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Tom and Mike. I believe your problem
> is caused by not packing the threads teight enough
> and I would also burnish the threads. Burnishing
> well flatten the threads and help close any gaps.
> Good Wraps Bob

I have to disagree with you guys about packing and burnishing threads causing the old and dingy looking colors. It is the color preservatives that caused the various levels of transparencies, not gaps in the threads I did some test wraps with 3 different color preservatives over wraps that were especially wrapped tight and burnished, using Gudebrod Orange over a black blank.

The Diamonite CP dried the darkest, the Flex Coat CP was so so but still not as bright as NCP thread and after a friend recommended Gudebrod 811, I found some at a local tackle shop and the Gudebrod 811 CP gave the brightest and best results.

Not all CP's are created equal and at least I know it ain't my wraps causing this problem.

Robert, a little testing goes a long way, doesnt' it? Now you know what is causing your problem ratehr than relying on us to guess at it. No more drawing board for you, you may take you seat back in the front of the class, lol. In my test above I had minor blotching with only 1 coat of CP on half teh wrap, but absolutely no blotching on the half which had 2 coats of CP. I want to blame it on improper application of CP, but I put so much on I find tht hard to beleive, especially since teh blotches were small.

One thing is for sure, CP is NOT a user friendly product, but it is a neccesary evil in many cases. THE more you play with it and figure out what works best for YOU, the more it will become your friend. Thanks for the update.