Tom, let me first congratulate you on the new issue, which arrived in my mailbox yesterday. It's superb. I don't build freshwater rods, so there's normally some stuff I either skim or skip entirely, but everything in this issue is worth reading multiple times. Even the Q&A section is excellent: the question about braid is one that should be required reading for every rodbuilder (I've had knot problems with braid, and virtually every one of them was because the reels were spooled incorrectly by me. I solved the problem by having them spooled professionally, so I would have asked how the reel was spooled. But that's just a quibble -- the issue is great).

Anyway, the thing that caught my attention first and most was the new concept spinning guide article. I think it's a great refinement of a good method, and I especially like the new method for placing the choking guide (the point-of-intersection method never worked for me, as the Penn spinning reels have virtually no upsweep, and the intersect point is past the tip, even on long surf rods). And I love the rule of thumb that the stripping guide should be about half the diameter of the reel spool -- the old method of using a the same size as the spool results in a butt guide that's way bigger than you need, and this has long been a notion that deserved to be consigned to the scrap heap.

Anyway, to my question: I've switched over to braid on all my surf plugging rods. I've monkeyed around with guide configuration, and test casting, with both braid and mono, and I always end up with the same results -- the guide array that works best for braid tends to be the same array that works best for mono. Do you configure guides differently, in size, spacing, or numbers, for braid rods than you do for rods that will be used with mono?

Not so far I don't. But if I have a problem I wouldn't hesitate to monkey around with things a bit. But, in most cases, the problem with braid is that some rods simply don't have enough guides. Braid is bad about blowing around or taking a path from a mind of its own - it's far limper than any mono so more guides are required to keep it moving in the intended direction. If you've followed the past few articles on guide spacing, you know what we've recommended as being the proper number of guides for any rod. In most cases, that number will work well with either braid or mono. But if you do experience problems with braid, the first thing I'd do is try increasing the number of guides by one or two and putting them all a little closer together. Just don't go overboard, too many guides is bad in other ways so you don't want to unnecessarily preload the rod with guides that weren't needed to begin with.

The new method for locating the choke guides isn't arbitrary - it was arrived at by checking some 200 rods and reels that had been set up with the prior method of spool upsweep angle and determining not only an average, but the average for each spool diameter when set to the location that gave the best performance. I've been working on this for a couple years in order to have the most data possible to work with. I think you'll find the factor given in the article to be very good. But again, if you feel you need to tweak it a little or you don't think it's quite right for what you're doing, make any change you feel necessary. But overall I think most will find that it makes the system even easier to implement and works as well or better than the prior method.

Finally, I have already had a question on what to do if that factor puts the choke guide off the end of the rod. Well, this is only going to happen on the those weird combinations where you're using a particularly large reel on an unusually short rod - a stand-up spinning rod for instance. In such a case, the tiptop is your choke guide. From there, proceed as usual. Again, this will be a truely rare instance and not confronted unless you're building stand-up spinning rods or simply putting a very bad choice of reel on your rod.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2007 10:32AM by Tom Kirkman.

Thanks Tom. I had a chuckle when I read your comment about short standup spinning rods or a bad choice of reel on the rod...

I just acquired another spinning reel that I am building a very short rod for. The reel is a Stella 16000 and the blank that I have chosen is a phoenix 5'8" rod that is rated 30-60 lbs.line test. Looks like this is going to fall into that exact category of rods that you alluded to...lol . BTW this is going to be a vertical jigging rod for deep water tuna. I will use the tip as my choke guide on this build. Thanks.

You'll be doing the right thing. When the reel is that large and the rod that short, your tiptop is the furthest distance you can locate it.

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Another reel that might exhibit a similar problem is the new US Reels series in the larger capacities, especially with braid, because they have the "older-style" wide-diameter spools. The idea of this "new" design is that the line comes off with less spiral, and retrieves faster as well. I'm already seeing them in catfish outfits, which of course tend to be shorter, heavier sticks, which is exactly the point of the comments above, because these are mostly freshwater setups.

I'd like to add that the "limp" lines, such as Ande BackCountry in the lighter line weights (say, 8lbs) are also affected by rod designs that don't have enough guides, similarly to braid.

Tom, you might yet change my mind about our big stripper guides. One of the things we test for is line-slap (more a function of the placement of the stripper and the height off the rod, I think, than of the size) and friction at the stripper (which is a function of the size of the guide and the reel, etc). We have yet to have a customer who didn't comment on the fact that when they cast, there's no noise at all from the line, and they get more distance than they ever expected. I guess there's several ways to solve the equation, huh?

We'll see - - -

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

The height of the frame is generally more important than the size of the ring. At least to some extent.

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I'm no pro but for braid, I definitely think the height of frame is more important than size of the ring.

As to intersect point, here's a slightly different point of view. I cut into my cork Tennessee handles to lower the height of the spin reel. At the same time, I can make the cut so that the spool has more angle for an intersect point closer to the butt - so can control the angle. I want my reel to be perfectly centered from the spin spool to the intersect point and all the guides to align at the right height - so that reeling at a constant speed makes the lure move at a constant speed. Then, I control the 'jerkiness' of my line by pulling it off axis with my 1st finger when retrieving the line. This way, I get to control exactly how the lure speed behaves in finesse fishing. If my reel is not perfectly centered on the intersect point and the guides are not perfectly centered on the line of flow, then the lure speed varies depending on where the spool position is.

Of course, cutting into the handle to change the reel angle does not apply to most builds with reel seats or graphite tennessee. This also means that each rod is built around a specific reel.

By the way, all that, I still am not that great a fisherman....:)

Mo

I also believe that the height of the ring is more important than size. But here's a question:

Say I'm using high frame spinning guides (SVSG style). And say that the path between the center of my reel and the choker requires me to use a much bigger guide than I want to -- say size 40, when I'd rather use a 25 -- to get the stripper guide's outer ring edge to that straight line. Do you A) bite the bullet and use the 40, B) try to find a higher-ringed guide, or C) use the 25, and accept the lighter weight (and better performance) in exchange for redirecting the line path a bit? You could cheat, and move the butt guide farther up the blank, but for the sake of discussion let's say that you've determined the optimum position, and the butt guide position is fixed.

As a corollary (boy, I'm a weenie; I love these theoretical subjects, and working through them in my mind), what are the highest-framed spinning guides around?

Just move the guide farther up the rod. The closert the guide is, the larger it can be. The further, the smaller (or lower) it can be. Both a 40 and a 25 will fit, but not in the same location. Use the guidelines in the article for about how far the butt guide should be from the reel face.

The Fuji (and similar) Concept style guides are a bit higher than the SVSG types. They work well for this system, as they should - they were designed for it.

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MO;
I'm a little confused by your statement

"I want my reel to be perfectly centered from the spin spool to the intersect point and all the guides to align at the right height - so that reeling at a constant speed makes the lure move at a constant speed"

From what I know, and based on your comment. The speed of the lure is determined by the speed of the retrieve and how many revolutions the bail makes around the spool so that if you are reeling at a constant speed the lure will move at that constant speed regardless of were or how many guides you have. I don't understand how an offset guides (s) would have anything to do with lure speed that is controlled by reel retrieval? Can you explain it further?

Sorry Steve, just saw this while taking a break. I'm with AOL and never get any updates from this forum. AOL just filters out any confirmation.

Hard to explain but easy to see.

For an extreme example, do this:

1. Take your spin reel and cast in your living room.
2. Before reeling in line, take your 1st finger and pull the line up as if you are ready to cast - but leave the bail closed.
3. Reel in and look at the lure.

The further your finger is from the center axis of the spool, the more erratic the lure speed. It'll speed up and slow down with each revolution of the bail. This is true with guides - but not as pronounced.

Many have used this to good effect when using lures. There's even a little gizmo on @#$%& that takes the place of the 1st finger.

Mo