I have only been reading this board and rod maker for a a year or so.....I hear the term progresive taper often but have never heard of anyone give a good way of telling how progressive a fly rod taper is.....

By progressive, most fisherman mean a rod that will load well at short distances but have enough power when they cast longer distances. Some also mean that a rod has a simular "pace" or frequency when casting 15' or 60' of line.

Any ideas of how to tell how "progressive" a taper is? Simular fequencies with different loads? Tip section diameter to butt section diameter ratio?

William,
Reading all the Common Cents info at the site in the upper left corner would be a good start. Than use the search function and pick up lots of earlier info on things like "resonant frequency".

Have read them, reviewed it again.

A progressive taper might be one that has little change in its resonant frequency when different loads are applied. A small delta CCF. Or a small ((CCF-1) - (CCF+1)). Something like that.......just thinking out loud.

The reason I bring this up is that I think it is a big component of whether a rod "fishes well".

Sounds like you need to talk to Emory Harry, or read his prior posts. I always learn new bits of useful info every time I talk to him or read his round table discussions on prior posts, but I've also never had more "Brain Is Full" alarms go off since college when he explains some aspects of this craft. I repeatedly go back and reread his articles in RodMaker magazine.

It only means that the flex of the rod takes place further and further back along its length as the load continues to be increase. For the most part, all rods have a progressive action.

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In talking about bamboo rods, a progresive taper is basically a straight taper, that is it has a constant rate of change from one end to the other. This results in a rod that , as Tom said, bends more as more load is applied to it. Compound tapers, which change in different amounts in different places, flex more where the taper is flatter and resist flexing where the taper is steeper. Usually compound tapered rods have 3 spots that are stiffer , so you wind up with a tip action rod until you get so much line out, then a mid flex until there is a certain amount more, then a full flex after that point. These rods can be a surprise just when you think the rods run out of gas, so to speak, you find that it has more guts than you thought.. I'm always a bit surpised to see tapers brought up here, most talk about rod action is spoken of in terms of which makers blanks are fast, slow or medium. That's one of the fun things about building with bamboo, I can make whatever taper stikes my fancy or invent my own without having to retool a factory to do it, all I have to do is reset my planing form, which I'm going to do anyway, so it's no big deal.
john

I see several manufacturers advertising that their tapers are "progressive"......I wonder what their definition is. I hear a lot of anglers talk about their rods that load well at short as well as long distances (winston BIIx, sage z-axis, Scott G2) as having more "progressive" tapers. A guide who I was fishing with described his 6wt BIIx: "It has a nice progressive taper; it has the tip of a 5wt and the butt of a 8 wt."

Most of the manufacturers have their catalog copy written by ad people. Generally there is no real meaning to what you see there. You're just as likely to see one of them claim that they've just brought out a new line of rods with "Matched Action Tapers" or some such marketing phrase. Before anyone can say their rod has the "tip of a 5weight or the butt of an 8weight, don't you think someone would have to define just what those are? As you no doubt know, no two 5 or 8 weight rods are the same. So exactly what is the definition of a 5 or an 8 weight? Nobody can point you to any standard that would identify or certify any rod as being such.

All rods will load well at short distances if you have enough load on them. And they'll load well at long distances if you aren't under or overloaded there as well. That sort of thing has more to do with having the right fly line (per length past the rod tip) and input from the caster than anything else. Click the Common Cents Information link at the top of the sponsor column and read up on this.

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William,
Call or email the factories in question and ask them what type of tapers they use and what their definitions are, then let us all know what you find out, it might prove very interesting.
john

John,

I will do that.

This terminology is very common. A quick online survey found T and T, Beulah, Meiser, Diamondback, and Cabelas use this term on their website. Many more fly shops talk of "progressive" tapers.



From R.B. Meiser's website:

"It does not have a stiff feel typical of most fast recovery fly rods. Rather, the blanks progressive taper will allow the rod to distribute required energy from the tip well into the butt when called on, whether the rod is partially or fully line loaded... This making the rod a very easy and friendly rod to cast over a long day on the water."



I think it probably refers to a compound taper that has a progressively increasing taper as it nears the tip. This is a property that could be measured. The AA may be an indirect measure of this. But when most fisherman say "progressive" taper they mean that a rod "loads well" at short and long distances. In other words, it has a simular static deflection and dynamic frequency over a large range of loads.

From the TFO website:

"Smooth progressive tapers load fast but have the reserve power for distance, line speed, and loop control."

From the T and T website, referencing their "progressive" taper paradigm series:

"The action of these Paradigm rods reaches back to the poetry of flycasting. Spring creek afficianados have described them as having the ability to “paint the fly on the water."

A progressive taper with extreme tip sensitivity and full-flex action are the hallmarks of T&T’s Paradigm Series fly rods. These rods are designed to load effortlessly while generating smooth, narrow loops in the full range of casting distances. Whether you are laying down a size 18 dry fly with a whisper or dead-drifting nymphs in deep currents, this fly rod will produce results. State-of-the-art technology allows Thomas & Thomas to build the Paradigm with unparalleled durability and light weight. Specially crafted, ultra-smooth stripping guides help add critical distance to your presentations. A signature silver wire adorns the distinctive T&T blue graphite just above the grip. "

Typical ad man stuff. Have you read, "Fly Rod Expertise by the Numbers?" It's very funny, but also very true.

Go to the Common Cents Info page and get the short article there. It will shed a lot of light on your subject.

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Just got Cabela's Response:

On our Progressive Taper rods at Cabela's, is that they will have a smooth progressive taper, load fast, but have the reserve power for distance, line speed, and loop control. Will have extreme tip sensitivity and full-flex with actions that are designed to load effortlessly while generating smooth, narrow loops in the full range of casting distances. Whether you are laying down a size 18 dry fly with a whisper or dead-drifting nymphs in deep currents, these fly rods will produce results. Hope this helps.....


Looks like someone googled the T and T website at cabelas.

The sad thing is that I hear a lot of anglers using this terminology and are want it in their rods........whatever "it" is.

William,

Nothing against Cabelas, but that is more goobledogook than anything else. In that paragraph, there is not a single thing that makes any sense. Again, marketing jargon. It all sounds great to the uninformed and everything there is true, sort of, for all rods.

Again, Bill Hanneman's Fly Rod Expertise by the Numbers is a bit tongue in check, but there is a great element of truth to it.

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