Ok building a 10 wt. Rainshadow. Moderate action. Trying to get the guides right. I have 3 stripper guides, 20, 16, 12. 1 size 6 single foot fly guide. 6 size 5 single foot fly guides. I have a factory gloomis rod and that is what I believe is on there. I also set the guides at the same distance apart as my loomis. Then I figured I would try the static test. I'm confussed or just not sure what I am looking for. From what I have read, the first guide should be 5" or so from the tip, and shouldn't have to move it. Why? How do I know where to put the last stripper guide? I under stand with spinning rods you place the last guide so it does interfear with the way it casts and so the line doesn't smack the rod. Correct? Is there anywhere I could see pictures of the the static test being done? What to look for and what not? Are there any other ways of place the guides on a rod? I think im just scarred of it being wrong, and performing badly. I need to be able to get the confidents of doing it right. Oh yea, when I put the bend in the rod and work the few guides in that area and bend it more, then move to the other guides, it looks like the guides I just moved are wrong. You guys have been great so far, and thank you for all your help. Ted

RodMaker Magazine would have plenty of articles and photos on guide spacing. You wouldn't have photos, but you could read the online library article here on static guide spacing.

You have one stripping guide - the rest are runners. I would use 16, 12 and then the #5 single foots on out. Give it a try and see how it works for you and your line combination.

The idea when doing the static stress test is to have the line follow the curve of the rod when under load. Yes, the line will flat spot between each pair of guides but it should be consistent from guide to guide, with an overall flow that approximates what the rod above it is doing.

The first guide generally falls between 4 and 5 inches from the tiptop. The butt, or stripping guide, will fall at about 32 to 34 inches from the butt of a 9 foot rod.

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I'd 1st plan on using three creamic double foot guides on the butt section. Starting witha sz 20 is a bit much...we are talking about a fly rod now aren't we, because lots of ppl make spinning rods out of fly blanks ????? If a fly rod I'd start with a sz 12, 10, 8, FERRULE ( and don't put a guide directly on the ferrule) then the smalles running guide the knots you will use on that 10wt. line will EASILY pass through. A size 4 SF wire fly guide should be big enough, considering there is no ceramic ringg and this allows for a bigger opening for a comperable sized ceramic rinded guide. Most production rods the stripper guide is some 26-28" in front of the reel seat (Tom measured from the end of the blank / fighting butt / reel seat) PLace the 1st guide ring 4.75" back from the installed tip top ring/loop.

I have to ASSUME (which I din't like to do) that the rod is 9' feet long so I'd want 10 guides on it, three ceramic rined DF guides on the butt section and 7 on the tip section not counting the tip. Try to come up with a graduated inital spacing between the 1st guide down from the tip and the stripper guide. The distance between them is divided by 9 this will equal the mean average between guides and should be the spacing distance between the 4th and 5th guide half way between the the two established guides. Tape on the guides and line up the rod tied onto somethiong heavy and low to the ground. Flex just the tip, then the tip and mid portion of the rod , then finally deflect the tip one third its overall length this ia a full flex for a static test and used to place the the lower guides on the blank. The initial tip flex is to space the tip guides and so on with the mid and full flex; each targeting a specific 1/3 of the blank. Your trying to get all the guides placed such that the line follows the natural arch of the rod blank and the angle of the line relative to the blank is equal go int and commin gout of a guide and the guides on eiother side of the guide selected, maing a uniform transtion. Moving the guides up or down the blank slightly, OR removing or adding guides to accomplish this uniform angled end is what your after.

Now static testing a spining rod.... I do a bit differently, I'd still want three ceramic ringed guides on the butt , but they can be SF. Using the upsweep of the reel to locate them such that they make a funnel tapering down to the intersect guide. I'd still want to use 10 guides on a 9 foot rod. The highframe guide sz for a shimano 4000 size spool would be 25, 12, regular frame sz 8 FERRULE then sz 3 SF wire fly guides on out to a standard matching fly tip top. I'd place the 1st guide ring down from an installed tip some 4.75". I'd tape on the other 8 guide in a progressivelyy graduated spacing between the 1st stripper and the 1st guide down from the tip and THEN do a static test CONCENTRATING just on the small SF wire fly guides (Top 2/3 of the guides area of the blank) and their placement. Adjusting so you are not left with a guide-on-ferrule situation. Concept guideing states to do all the guides, I like doing jus tthe upper 2/3rds on a spinning rod just to keep the reel upsweep determined ceramic ringed funnel intacted on the butt section.

Chris,
Not questioning (I know next to nothing about fly rods), just curious. Why would 3 double foot guides be used on a fly rod and SF can be used on a spinning rod? I use SF's (Maybe one or two DF on trolling, casting and musky rods with no problem and really don't understand the dDF thing on fly rods. Is it tradition or neceaary??

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Ok let me make sure I have this right. First off It is going to be a fly rod and it is 9 ft long. I have 10 guides. I choose the sizes to match my factory Loomis rod. First guide from the tip 4.75". What situations would make this different or is this pretty normal for most rods? Now I bend just the top 1/3 of the rod and just adjust those guides. Then the bend it so 2/3 of the rod is bend, leaving the guides I just moved alone and only work with the guides in this next portion. Then so on with the 3rd bend in the rod. From what I under stand the last guide is placed were it is comforable to strip the line. Not so much for the curve in the rod. This is were the 26"-28" from the reel seat comes in. If this is correct then I see were my confusion my be. The fighting butt on this rod is 4 1/2". That places my last guide at 24", not 26"- 28". So if I were to move this guide up 2" then place the other guides as stated before, this my cure my confusion. Am I on the right track here guys?

Mike

It might just be tradition, every factory production fly rod has a DF Stripper. Years ago it was common to start out a spinning rod with a big DF guide then you'd put SF's the rest of the way down. The River rat power built version of a Salmon/steelhead chuck and duck rod used DF ceramic guides all the way up the blank and that was on an rare old loomis IMX 10' 10wt (not many 10 -10's around)

Maybe its just to beef them the 1st stripper guide and add more side to side stability, offsetting any torque, as the wet stripped line shoots through it on a long double haul cast. I do like the look of, and have been giving serious thought to using; the SF Alcontie Bridge guide, no one ever uses for the 2nd and 3rd ceramic ringed guides on a 2 pc fly rod butt section. I do like to use a 3rd ceramic ringed guide (on heavier weight fly rods 7 and up) to lift the line up over the ferrule on a 2 pc. fly rod blank to avoid line slap (some Mfger's drop down to a SF wire fly guide just before the ferrule, I say thats a no-no) and spread out the fish fighting load. DF are a bit stronger and have two feet to better disperse the fish fighting load on the butt section (half) of the rod that is used to fight the fish.

They tried to make margerine (originally invented to be turkey feed) clear so it would not be mistaken for butter (via a Wiconsin Senator) but that didn't sell and soon everything was yellow and you had to read. Who knows why they need to be DF considering what we now know about how well guides are secured to a blank, but maybe in a day when DF wire snake guides were not thought of as being that strong they went over board with the one (or few) ceramic ringed guides they would put on a fly rod, in an attempt to give these guide(s) the maximum strength and load dispersion possible



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2007 07:11PM by Chris Karp.

Chris, thanks for the info!!

Ted, Again, not knowing much about fly rods but what makes you sure that your Loomis rod was set up in the optimal configuration or that it would be optimal for your Rainshadow? Different blanks, different actions. I do know that I can set up 2 identical spinning/casting rods and static test will give me different configurations on each.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

I wasn't really tring to set it up like my Loomis. I was just using it as a starting point. That was why I was doing the static test. I choose the guides like my Loomis, because I did know what else to go by and from what I have read it wasn't wrong, just a little over sized. I knew that both rods wouldn't have had the guides in the same spots. If you were building 2 identical rods woudn't you at least use the other one as a starting point? Or would it be best to start from scratch to make your self do it right?

No, you're right! I took it as you were trying to duplicate your Loomis. Sorry about that!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!