I just had occasion to stop by a local fishing tackle shop that sells their custom rods. Back when selling custom rods was a mere thought I offered to walk this person through a build for a nominal fee. ($65 10 hrs or better) He didn't want to do that...and this person has a nack for stretching the truth.

I stopped in and was watching him tie on some guides. In this area we mostly build freshwater steelhead rods and he aquired some old looking spools of thread in a bulk by out and the dia. looked big. I asked him if that was size "E" thread and he said "No NCP size "D", I responded "That stuff goes on like paint dosen't it, that stuff really covers" I was thinking... accept for the white he likes to use with no white paint prep underneathe so it fades as the blank peers through. (although looking at another rod I saw with white thread on a gloss blue blank that looked so killer as white faded to a bon-o-fide looking pearl blue color) The last time I was in his shop I looked at rod he had tied up but not epoxied yet and very lightly waggled it to see if the tip osocilated off the vertical plain. I started gentally waggling it and the thrid guide down popped out of the wrap, and I was being extra gental as there was a bare butt wraps still on the rod.

Well this time I was a looking closer at his set up and the thread was tensioned by the thread and set so lightly it could not fray. He was wraping a guide pretty much as I had 20 years ago with a good 3/8" run-up thread on the blank just before the guide foot so he had enough over all length to put in a basic 2 color fade wrap and I have to admit the fade part did look more pronounced with the sz "D" thread even though the white grayed up after the epoxy was laid up. Hes then starts trimming off the tags not pulling them back the same direction they came from so they might more easly suck back under. I saw very little packing or burnishing he did butane lighter flame down some fuzzies and burnish over that one spot.

Next thing you know he was spreading expoy over the threads and a hand written, curving up and down inscription that you'd have to take down to the Chicken Coop reasturant to translate into english and some how a portion was smudged or rubed off, so naturally I had to have messed with it. I told him "Sure everything that goes a bit wrong for you I had a hand in" He was globing it on with a brush, forget filling the tunnels. Then I recalled not seeing him measure the epoxy, and I asked him about that... and he said he just eyes it. I told it if your more than a 1-1/2 10th gram heavy (per gram combinded component weights) with that hardner it won't cure beyond sticky. He grumbled on about never having any troubles with it himself, and I said "Your luckier than I usually am, if I was braizen enough to try thinking about such a thing"...so he kept globbing it on and I thought here comes the wavies it is cures if it does at all, then he pretty much globbed on more dropping a brush full on bare spots. I asked if he used one coat or two and he said one. I saw epoxy drops hanging and asked him if he would like to see how I epoxy up a guide. I was just going use something flat and level to screet off the excess. He said no then you'll say you taught me how to do it. I said well maybe thats not so bad lots of rod builders in the area come to me to epoxy their rods after they tie them, thats no big deal. I asked him who taught you how to build rods and he said his uncle did 20 yrs ago. I told him I had never heard about how well your uncle built rods around here, Thinking that the locals know who I learned from and they have bought rods from this deceased local rod builder and myself before, so knowing what he knew, via me, isn't a detriment. I told him we all can pick up something different from nearly every person in rod building we do meet if you have an open mind. This fictional uncle must not have been that great because before the shop owner started building rods for the public he always used production rods to fish with, His words didn't jive with his actions, where as once I learned you never saw a production rod in my hand, and the difference between 20 yrs ago and now are like night and day, So even if he did really learn that long ago... and then what?... not build rods with this knowledge just letting it age in the husk.. it hasn't mellowed any

You try to help ppl out to produce a better product, seeing so many mistakes you may have once made and now everyones an instant expert. Is it that easy to build a rod the public will accept just because it is custom? I have heard on this site, that some on other sites, claim ppl here look at things to closely. I guess you can only see it if you know of it, as ignorance is ever so blissful. you can clean your house with in an inch of its life, or have a cleaning lady do it, but in the end she will know what is still dirty and be able to see it even though you think it all looks fabulous. I just can't stand to see this type of workmanship SOLD via a line-of-customized-hype to the public, without substancial engineered backing, or procedural ethics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2007 08:14PM by Chris Karp.

This is one reason that the general fishing public does not hold custom rods and custom rod builders in very high regard.

Still, this fellow may have a niche, probably sells on price and has many happy customers.

..............

Interesting read, Chris.....and size D ncp of a few years ago *was* the size of normal E !!
These days, I'm finishing off the wrap directly on top of the guide foot, in line with the ring. A quick little burnish, and it's pretty much invisible.

Kris I don't know what needs to happen in order to save our art from wanta b's. I know after looking at doc's work and tom's work and some others I feel like an amature as well. I hve been building and designing rods for almost 30 years but can still see to many flaws to be real happy,
If the had been a forum like this and a few others when i started i might be really good know.
Maybe this guy will swollow some pride and read some of this forum and comments.
Like tom said this guy probably has a nitch, just hope its not in my area.

Paul

Paul@soonercustomrod.com

Paul Lindsey Wrote:
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> Kris I don't know what needs to happen in order to save our art from wanta b's.

Nothing has to happen, those who are truly...TRULY artists will continue doing so. And those who are super hacks liek this guy wil also continue. Most of teh more artistic builders I know build rods to impress other builders and really dont' care what teh general fishign public think. Look at actual ARTIST, like painters. Most were bums and once they died their stuff became popular. If they worried about what people thought they would have stopped doing what they LOVE whentehy first started. I think most artsy people have an.....uh...go to heck attitude when it comes to their work as they know what tehy are doing is "good" (each person has a differnt definition of good)

All of those hacks out there just help to make the work done by those who are true artists look all the better.

I do not think that building a fine fishing rod is an art, it is a craft. A fishing rod has to first perform the function that it was intended for and that is determined by the craftsmanship that went into it not the art. If it does not perform that function and perform it well then in my judgment it is not a fishing rod it is a piece of junk. If it does a good job of performing the task for which it was intended and is also very attractive then that can be a real bonus. But art is what it is for its own sake and does not necessarily even have a function.
The guy that Chris is talking about it neither an artist nor a craftsman. I am not sure what he is, maybe a junk dealer.

Chris, you gotta remember, you were in HIS shop, his turf, his business. By introducing yourself as a rodbuilder, you become a business threat to him. He probablly didn't appreciate you offering a tip or suggestion? (sounds like he could use a few) Because he does things his way, and thats that.

If it appeared that he builds and sells alot of these, be grateful you got out alive!! lol. He probablly doesn't even enjoy building rods anymore. Probablly all slumped over a lathe, drooling and mumbling to himself after you left..all stuck in the "Dark Side" of rodbuilding.

I secend the last post. I find that if I id myself as a fellow rod builder I get the cold shoulder unless they are a regular on this board. Keep your high standards and word of mouth seems to sell the best if you are interested in selling and I have found out that I only prebuild a rod if I want to fish it or donate it for a charity @#$%& such as Boy Scouts or our local Cancer or Childrens hosp. Thats my 2 cents worth

Hummmm! Just wondering how many will be changing their name tags to ( WANTA-B'S ) for the big Exposition at High Point ????

It's easy to find fault with other people's work, especially if you are a "Brain Surgen" or "Rocket Scientist". Jesse

YA know....

I have been fly fishing for thirty years. I have been in the retail end of it to the wholesale end of it, to the video making end of it. (FLYFISHING FOR TROPHY RAINBOW'S OF THE ALAGNAK video) .

I realized many years ago that NO MATTER how long you have been doing something, I MEAN NO MATTER HOW LONG, you can ALWAYS learn from someone else. They could be a rookie or an ole' salt. The day you think you know everything, is the day you stop learning. Just by listening to others, one can learn and be educated...it's always good to keep an OPEN-MIND...

I love to hear you guys...my mind is a sponge!
Paul

Chris; When you told him you were a rodbuilder, he imediately felt inferior to you, thats why he copped an attitude. The guy is neither a craftsman nor an artist. As Emory said, he is probably a junk dealer and his clients don't know the difference either.

jbh

Thanks for all the input, just tring to help the weakest link in the local chain to bring up rodbuilding as a whole in this area. Despite his words and ego I know he has to be struggling with certian prodcedural aspects of rod building and I can't just sit there long watching a guy do it the hard way especailly if I had to learn things the hard way, which wasn't so hard as I was willing to take input from anyone not worring about my reputation and what rep do you really have starting out? next to none accept a precieved willingness to get along and adapt, which is the universal key to all fishing related endevors (I think)

I was in his shop once when he was tring to tell a customer who was looking for a new cork handle, that cork only comes in 1/2 rings not entire one piece slabs like the customer thought he had on his rod, He used myself and himself for a refference saying he and I have built 1000's of rods. Well I knew he had not built anywhere near that many and even over all the time I have built rods I could not say with a clear conscience that I had built that many and really wouldn't want to. But the customer walked out looking and thinking cork came in a slab regardless of what either of us had to say. So the clientel that comes into his shop might be less then knowledgable, and he might feel threatened as I do build rods in this local area. but I think he relies more on paranoia than sound reasoning.

And as for being an expert, the defination of an expert is ex=former spert=drip I have worked in retail a long time and it is a big ego trip when someone asks and actully wants your opionion on something, that is often quite rare in life, most muddle through life and no one really cares what they have to say about anything. Its just like teaching the pay isn't that good the satification comes in someone asking you for the knowledge you possess and that they want.

Some are just to proud to ask for direction and we get guys like this wading down to the river, we call them cannon fodder, they are slow or fishing the wrong weight messing up others drifts and when you try to help them, they assure You that they have been fishing longer than you, (just not down here where its sort of real different) and don't need to listen to anyone. They eventually tire from snagging up or tangling up with others and then wade off looking for somewhere to fish in peace, well guys who listen and want to wade around we will warn before they step into an unseen hole they are headed for by giving them the silent long-distance international symbol for swimming, (shouting to get their attention, then making a two handed swimming breast stroke motion) on the other hand, the less than local experts, the close minded know-it-alls we let take a swim and fish out there outfits later if they drop them as they provide the days entertainment (but we all do take a river bath from time to time) Pride cometh before the/a fall, and I didn't even know Pride was a season?