Aloha All,

Introduction:
I am an Ulua Shorecast fisherman from Hawaii that is new to Rod Building. I am currently fishing and will be wrapping 13'-14' BaitCast and SlideBait poles. Reel seats heights are 36" and poles are two piece with metal covers that protect the bottom 12" for the pole holder and will have a bell holder (2" hollow metal piece to slip bell hanger into). I will be using insert type three-ffoted guides that will usually be from 30, 25, 25, 20, 20, 20, 20 with or , 30, 25, 20 20, 16, 16, 16 with 16 or 20 ring tips. For set ups such as these I will be using 40-80# test.
Also, I have a baby on the way :) so I will be wrapping as I foresee no time for fishing in the near future :(


Question
I am building two pairs of BaitCast poles (13'6" and a 14' _30-50# test 6-7oz lead) and am trying to save weight any way possible. So far, I have decided to use shrink wrap for grips and am trying to stay away from an underwrap. A local rodbuilder advised me to adhere a jeans patch to the bottom of each guide foot. He explained trhat it should protect the blank and provide adequate coverage on the bottom.
Have any of you used this method or something similar? All responses are welcomed.

Mahalo for your Kokua in advance,

Allen

The Jeans Patch seems a home grown remedy which is a poor alternative to a sound underwrap with or without a coat of finish before wrapping the guide over it. These are definitely heavy duty surf rods. You do not say what blanks you are using but since you are looking to reduce weight I assume you've chosen Graphite or a Composite. There are some who would not use underwraps even on such heavy duty rods in order to save weight. It's up to you. If you are very careful to remove all burrs from your guides and do a good job of applying the finish they may serve you for many years without incident. Given the extra harsh elements that are common in surf situations I'd opt for an underwrap. I would use Titanium Guides for both their weight savings and immunity to salt water. Your guides should be kept as small as will pass the knots you use. Have you considered employing the Bumper Wrap configuration? It will not add or detract from your casting distance much but it will definitely provide you greater leverage when fighting whatever monsters this rig is geared to take on. What fish are you after?
You must have arms of steel to throw that much weight on such long rods. What kind of distance do you normally get? I'd sure like to watch.

DG,

Thanks for the reply, I will be using titanium guides and am after Giant Trevellay (sp?) aka ULUA. Here is a link to our local website [www.hanapaa.com]. We try to cast at least 100 yards but I get maybe 80-barely 90 yards. I am still working on my casting. Here is alink to the type of casting that we do [www.youtube.com].
I am not familiar with the Bumper Wrap, can you elaborate or explain.

Mahalo,
Allen

-Blanks are Outcast graphites very similar to the Talon Ulua poles [www.talon-graphite.com]

On that class of rod that is likely to weigh over 16 oz with loaded reel attached the elimination of the underwrap will not be noticeable. I would not use jeans patch material and would instead opt for a standard rod building underwrap. Since the rig is fished from the rocks, stuck in the rocks, I would strive to make the rod as tough and as heavy duty as possible. I agree with the titanium guide frames, but look closely since there are some that are titanium "plated" and other guide frames that are solid. If you grind the feet on the plated ones you expose the underlying non-corrosion resistant material.

I fished for Ulua too when I lived in Oahu. We used rigs with the break-away claw sinkers designed to breakaway whenever you retrieve the rig for the day or when a large fish takes the bait - we used tako (octopus) or squid. We use a similar setup to fish for king mackerel from the Virginia and North Carolina coastal piers - a tall stiff to cast out a heavy 8oz -10oz claw sinker from which a live bait is slid out on a breakaway "clothespin" to the surface of the water. The technique is called "clothes pinning" by the locals. The Virginia state record king mackerel was taken with such a rig from Little Island Pier in Va Beach some years ago.

Lou

Allen,

Run a search of the Forum using ALL DATES for the words BUMPER WRAP. Basically, you lay out your guides on the top, or 0 axis of the blank as you would for a regular casting rod. Then you move all the guides (except the Butt Guide) to the bottom, or 180 axis of the blank. The Bumper Guide is a small guide placed at 90 to 100 degrees on the side of the blank precisely half way between the but guide and the first bottom guide. This guide should sit as low as possible to the blank. It only serves to prevent the line from scraping the blank. Most place it on the same side as the reel handle, This allows the rod to lay flat when needed. It is also advisable to choose a slightly smaller size guide for the 2nd guide.. (the first one on the bottom) to be sure the line hits the bottom of the guide. This assures that this guide will bear some load.

It may be difficult to imagine how well this works but it greatly increases the stability of the rod. The stronger the fight the greater the benefit. This prevents the rod from twisting and actually keeps the reel sitting on top when pressure is applied by a fish. There are many types of spiral wraps. The Bumper Wrap is probably the simplest and has been widely accepted as one of, if not the most, effective.

RodMaker Magazine has covered this topic. You would be wise to purchase the back issue with the article. If you have further questions please email me. I'll be happy to walk you through it.

I have never seen the use of a metal tube attached to the butt as a sand spike. Here in the Northeast US we place pvc tubes into the sand and put the rod in when we want to have our hands free.

Dave

Allen,

If you are going to use shrink wrap, you will want to use the patterned type. Standard shrink wrap is smooth and does not work well with octopus slime. For general use, I use 3-M tape. Some people complain that it is too rough on their hands after they have been soaked in ocean water for several hours. You may want to consider a space wrap as an alternative.

Regarding the guides, I have been using alconites on both my prototype rods and my fishing rods. They have provided good service. Plated titanium over stainless guides should work fine and they are available from Fuji. Solid titanium is very expensive and may not provide a noticeable weight savings. My next tournament rod may use titanium for the top three or four guides.

Under wraps:

Brian (Brians Fishing Supply - King Street) glues on guides on some of his rods. I do not know a percentage. He told me the glue serves as a cushion. I did order some glue through Merrick. It is "Glue Foot Adhesive" by Flex Coat. If you can't find a tackle shop locally and are adamant about using glue, I can provide some as I haven't used mine (assuming you are on Oahu).

I do use under wraps and do vary my over wrap. The over wraps start as a double in D thread size. Goes to a double over wrap in C thread size at some point working toward the tip. And finally a single over wrap in C thread in the tip section (top 3' ?). You may want to consider splitting the wraps with one wrap for each guide foot.

Just informational for the folks: Some people do use 300# shock/rub line and use the Austrailian braided plait (tripled line) to attach the main line to the rub line. The main may be 80 to 100# test.

Hope this helps,
Don






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2006 05:07PM by Don Becker.