I read the thread about a problem with Flex Coat not setting up after 13 hours, and read a few of the comments about recoating it, making sure it's mixed well, how cold is it, etc. This is what I learned the hard way about this problem:
I built a 7' SCIV crankbait rod for a friend, who fishes hard and frequently. The first coat of FC did not set right, but I intended to apply a second coat anyway, and did so. That coat set up fine. However, the first coat never allowed the guides to be secure, and the top coat was ineffective. I ended up rewrapping the whole rod, butt wrap and all. This time I used Threadmaster, warmed it up first, measured and mixed carefully for 3 minutes, and applied one coat. It set up perfectly, and I don't expect that rod back in the shop until he breaks it in two high-sticking a lunker.

I am definatly glad I chose to re-wrap the whole rod!

Fran,
I apply Flex Coat a couple of hundred times a year, almost every day, and I never have any problems with it getting hard. If you take care to insure that you mix it 50/50, I use syringes, mix and apply it at and leave the rod at a reasonable temperature say 65 degrees F or better, and mix it until it is clear, it will get a little cloudy then stringy then clear, you will guaranteed not have any problems with it not getting hard. The same process is necessary if you use Threadmaster. Threadmaster and Flexcoat are very similar.

I have used both and I see very little similarity between Flexcoat and Threadmaster in set up time, clarity, non-yellowing or results I realize that it's just my opinion, but I think that TM wins on all countd!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

When ever we have a problem with any apoxy finish not completely cureing
we have to determine the extent of the falure before the next step is taken.
If the cure is hard but still tacky an additional coat will fix it but if the cure is
soft complete removal is the only solution.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Mike,
I have used Threadmaster as well and I agree that it has some positive characteristics. In my judgment it is not enough better than Flexcoat to offset the difference in price but that was not the point. In terms of the problems that Fran was having I do not see any difference at all. If you mix either accurately and long enough and keep the temperature up you will not have any problems with either catalyzing properly and getting hard. If you do not mix them accurately and long enough or do not keep the temperature up you will have problems with either one.

Threadmaster has documented problems under 70F. Flex Coat seems fine down into the low 60s for me. In the Northwest, that's a big deal.

Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

Emory,
I completely agree that all finishes will work properly if used properly. There is $1.07 difference between an 8 oz kit of FC lite and TM Scott, I use TM in the high 60's Agreed that it's best around 70 but a few minutes of the bottles in my pocket or hands takes care of that!

Non eof the finishes are bad - They all do what they're supposed to do. I just think that the characteristics of TM fit my needs much better and I spent to many years watching Flexcoat wraps turn yellow. Anyone that's happy with their finish should stick with it

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

When your heating bill is nearly as high as your mortgage payment, you think twice about keeping the place at 70F+! Or even 65+F! One of the (many) problems with a poorly insulated building from the late 1960's...

My experience with Threadmaster was that it leveled GREAT with no bubbles at above 70F. Anything lower than that (I mean a degree or two, even), and it was a crapshoot, sometimes working fine, sometimes looking just awful. When the temps were high enough, it was a better finish than Flexcoat (either Lite or Hibuild), no question. If you're in a situation where you'll be consistently doing finish work at 70F or above, then by all means, I recommend Threadmaster over FC.

Unfortunately, I've had to stick with multiple applications of FC Lite to ensure I get a consistently good final product. If it's a rod for myself, I'm not as concerned, but if it's for a customer, I have to be 100% sure that my cosmetics are right on each and every rod. It works, it just takes longer to do the multiple coats, and may show more UV yellowing down the line. Now whether it'll be that much worse after five or ten years of fishing? I don't know. I do know that FC has been around for many years and has proven its durability over the long run. Can't be that bad, eh?



Scott Kinney
The Longest Cast Fly Rods
[www.thelongestcast.com]

The slight yellowing of thin layers of thread finishes may or may not be a problem. If you are using dark colors of thread on grey to black banks you will never notice. If you are using very light colored thread or a white blank the yellowing tinge will show in a few weeks of sun exposure.

Flex Coat will set properly provided it is measured and mixed properly. Any time you get a batch that fails to harden, you can be sure that operator error was involved.

................

I mixed and applied TM in my shop at 55 degrees yesterday with no problems.

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing

Curing temperature should NEVER be a problem in my opinion. If you want to get fancy, you can build a heated 'drying' box. If you want to do it the simplest way possible, then cure your epoxy in a very small room (I use my laundry room) and add a space heater to that area. You don't have to heat the entire house or your workshop. That's all you need for dependable cure times/temps.

This of course is only my opinion.

Jay

Whenever the price or cost of thread wrapping finish comes up, I find it a bit amusing. I know guys who scrimp on how much they mix because "with that epoxy costs, I don't want to waste any more than necessary." Nothing wrong with being frugral but let's take a closer look at how inexpensive epoxy really is.

Flex Coat is about the cheapest and ThreadMaster about the most expensive. Working with the standard 4 ounce kits, which are also the most expensive, you will find 120ccs in such a kit. Now even with mixing a full 6cc mix per rod, that's 20 rod finishing jobs you can get from one 4 ounce kit. At $10 per 4 ounce kit for the FC, you're looking at a whopping 50 cents per rod finishing job. With the "super" expensive TM at about $14 for the same 4 ounce kit, you're still only talking about 70 cents per rod finishing job.

Now when you consider what you spend on your blank, seat, guides, grips, etc., and... what your time is worth, is 50 cents a rod really expensive to ensure that you get a beautiful finish on those wraps? Or if you want a really clear finish job on those lighter threads, is an additional 20 cents per rod worth it?

In either case, you're talking about finishing the average rod for less than a buck, whether you go with the least expensive finish or the most expensive. Less than a buck. What does it cost you to have to strip the rod down and do a clean up and total rewrap?

Of course, the two coat guys will have to spring for something like a buck to a buck and half. Or the guys building the offshore trolling and surf rods might have to go as high as perhaps two or three bucks per rod.

No question about it, epoxy finish is about the least expensive thing you'll put on a custom rod.

................

I've found that if left alone long enough, Flex Coat will harden under less-than-ideal mixing situations. I build my rods during the fall and winter seasons, and don't plan to fish them until the spring or summer. For me, leaving a rod sit for months, and checking hardness periodically does seem to work out. I can move on to another rod blank. I know for you rod builders filling an order for a customer, family members, or friends, particularly with Christmas a few weeks away, leaving a rod sit for months is not the right solution, but it is a possibility if all of the previous work (guide wrapping, scripting, etc.) has been done, and a re-do might not produce the same finished result.

I think my point got lost in the middle of my post. It was not an indictment of Flex Coat or a testimonial for Threadmaster as much as it was an admonishment to anyone that for whatever reason has applied a coat of finish and gotten less than perfect results. My recommendation, and my point in the post was that you might just as well peel it off and start over as deliver a rod that is destined to end up back in the shop.

If it ain't right, it aint' leavin'.