Guys have seen the post similar to this one but my questions werent exactly answered so I am going to try a different angle. I have been looking and looking for blanks to order so I can get my arsenal ready for next year. I will be carrying 4 baitcasters and 1 spinning reel. I am a non boater so I dont really want to be carrying 10 set ups with to events. Right now Im trying to figure what blanks I need. Im new to bass fishing and rod building so Im not sure exactly what I even need but through this forum and others I frequent it sounds like I need something like this.

Topwater rod- Used for Zara spooks- sizmic frogs and a maybe a few poppers.
Worm rod- texas rigged worms
Jig rod - throwing into the heavy stuff 1/2- 1ounce jigs
Crankbait rod- 1/2ounce lipless cranks and a few deep divers.

I have an Alpha Ito reel mounted on a Powell 683c rod which I love but Im not sure what purpose I should designate this setup to so I can fill out the other areas. I have 2 Steez baitcasters along with 1 calcutta 100 teDC on the way. I figured the calcutta would be used to throw some heavy line into the thick stuff with 1/2 to 1oz ounce jigs and the steez will fill out the rest. All rods will be equipped with Fuji Ti-sic guides. This brings me to the question what blanks do I need. I know experience with equipment helps a ton but mine is limited. I dont want to go through a bunch of blanks in order to find what I want, I would rather get the correct stuff the first time around. The second thing is the brands. Because of popularity of St.croix and Gloomis I have been fairly narrow on my search for blanks and decided it had to be one or the other. Now I am seeing CTS come up and Im wondering what is it that makes the costs so different in all the brands blanks? Modulous? Name? Do I need all high end blanks? SCV, GLX etc.? I dont mind spending my money on high end stuff, I just dont know what the heck I should be looking for. I would like to have the same brand name for each blank. If anyone has a good way to go about deciding on blanks, please help me out. I would like to get stuff ordered so I can start my building. Thank you for your time. Grant



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2006 01:09PM by Grant King.

Here is how I would answer this.

For the top water I would want a 6-6 to 7 foot medium heavy blank with a fast tip. Now depending on the line size and lure weight, you could go to a medium weight blank. I like a bit shorter rod for topwaters because I like to point the rod down when working the lure

For the worm rod I would suggest a 7 foot medium heavy to heavy blank with a fast to extra fast tip. I like the extra fast tip for being able to pitch the lure out but then have a lot of power in the butt section for a hookset.

For the jig rod I would suggest a 7 foot to 7-6 heavy rod with a fast tip. This could be a one piece blank or go with a telescopic handle.

For the crankbait rod I would suggest a 7 foot medium heavy blank with a moderate action. The moderate action will allow the fish to take in the bait more before your hookset starts moving the lure.

Myself I would go with a St Croix SCIII or SCIV series or with the new Rainshadow RX8 bass blanks. I know alot has been said lately about the CTS blanks, but I do not have experience with them as of yet. Need to get one sometime to try it.

Is it modulous that makes one blank superior to the other?

If you look at the different series of blanks from a company, the higher end ones have a higher modulas to them. The higher end blanks usually are lighter because of having a thinner wall thickness. The lighter the blank, the more, quote, sensitive it is going to be. The one thing with the lighter blanks you have to watch out for though is they are not as durable of a blank. Getting banged around in a boat and such can cause damge to the blank to where it will break under pressure. So you need to decide do you want a more sensitive finished rod or one that will take some abuse. I have had the best results with the St Croix SCIII and SCIV series myself. I just built a Rainshadow RX8 bass rod recently and I really like what I see in these blanks.

Grant,
The modulus of elasticity does not necessarily make a blank better or worse. A higher modulus will result in a blank that is lighter for a given stiffness but there is a price to pay. As the modulus goes up the strain energy or toughness does down. So whether a high, intermediate or standard modulus blank is better depends on the application. I would also consider if I were you some of the newer blanks with mixed modulus, high modulus in the butt section for light weight but intermediate modulus in the tip section for increased ruggedness.
The price of blanks is to some degree driven by the modulus, higher modulus results in higher price, but probably even more by the brand name. In my judgement some of the best blanks on the market are moderately priced.

I dont want to rain on your parade or be a party pooper but your gona build some expensive rods it seems. Since you dont have alot of fishing expirence I would wait to build those rods until you do have it. Theres some things here no one can tell but yourself. Like how long you like the grip to be on a particular rod for lets say a flipping stick or even how long of a flipping stick you like at all. I know its fun to buy gear, I love tackle too I have alphas, steez, luvias, pixys. Why not just buy some meduim end factory rods and sell them off later when you know what you want to build.

What does non boater mean? Are you planning on fishing from a pier or bank? There was a post a few months ago by Andy Dear on answering the modulus question - it was well done and should explain a lot of the questions you have answered. Use Search - author Dear - all dates and you can find a lot on everything you have posed.

In tournament fishing you have a "boater' (man who owns boat) they are paired with a "non boater" (man who has no boat or chooses not to use his boat in the tournament that day.) Good example his boat is in the shop, but still wants to fish tournament. Pairings are done at random, and usually partners are switched on tournaments that last more then one day. Helps to keep things honest.

Allot of fishermen just starting out in competition choose to go as non boaters to gain experience from the boaters. I have personally gone as a non boater in a tournament to help prepare for another tournament in a different circuit I fish on a regular basis. Had not been that lake for several years so spent a day with a boater that fished on it allot

Bill
a non boater is the guy without a boat who fishes on the back of a boat and often can't come up past the steering wheel, he is often an ametur. Names are drawn ppl register for tournamets as boater or non boater and they try to pair them up. This allows ppl without a $25-40,000 to fish tournaments.

One other very important rod for pro bass fishing is a spinnerbait rod, and you have to find the right one for that as often you cover a lot of water RUNNING and GUNNING, making many many quick casts trying to find where the fish are and eliminate 90% of the water that does not hold fish and put them on a pattern. You always start searching; a spinnerbait rod is a search rod and lots of guys figure the more water they cover the better their chances and being in the back of the boat you must compatably mimic speed wise, the technique of the boater. If the boats is running and gunning you can't be throwing a word behind him; although that is the basic technique after a fish misses a searching spinner bait is to go back, slow down and throw him a worm. But my point is, when your moving you must fish the same speed.

Bill, non-boater is the guy that rides with the angler who has the boat in bass tournaments. In big tournaments, it may be an amatuer in the back and the pro up front (bass fishing). In smaller regions tournaments it is often set up similarly where you register to either be a boater or nonboater.\

Wow, three simultaneous posts, must be a record.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2006 06:20PM by Dean Veltman.

Have no idea on Bass tournaments but in Pro walleye tournaments, the "co-angler" (non-boater) is not allowed to bring any tackle with him. They have to use the Pro's tackle (may have something to do with sponsors)

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

In bass tournaments, the non boater brings his own tackle but is asked to limit what he brings. Unless he is my boat. Then he can bring anything he wants. My personal feelings are that if I bring 17 rods it is not fair to ask my non boater to bring 6. Wants to win just like me and I feel telling him he can only bring certain things handicaps him. I don't see that as level or fair playing field.

Thanks guys, I figured out what a non boater is already. *smile* Is there somewhere you all would recommend I could order my stuff through? I have called several places and I felt like I was more of a bother than a customer. I would like to purchase everything I need at one place and hopefully speak to someone who doesnt mind a bunch of beginner questions, I would like to build a rod that resembles the Evergreen steed and use it for spinnerbaits becasue of chris's recommendation above. I also like to throw chatterbaits so I would assume that falls into the same category. I will be using 12-14lb flourocarbon or 12-14lb braid, not sure which quite yet. I would like the st,croix SCV, loomis GLX, or the CTS tournament blank. You guys can pick and please let me know what company would be willing to tell me what size components I need to match up with the blank. Thank you again, everyday I come to this site excited to see whats happening. You guys are great! Grant

Andy at Lamar Fishing on the left is the American distributer for CTS (from New Zealand) Any of the vendors on the left should be willing to take the time to work with you. Depending on what you want, it might be hard to get everything from one place, though. For Rainshadow/Forecast/Batson, give Robert a call at Fishsticks4U on the left a call. For Loomis, St Croix and others, give Scott at Mudhole a call or check their web sites. Both these vendors are very helpful and will work with you as will the other vendors listed on the left

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Andy at Lamar has been great to deal with
Fishsticks4you have also gone out of their way to make sure I had what I need.
Even to point of calling to confirm or suggest an alternative to what I had ordered.
I guess after looking I pretty much second Mike's post.

Last question. Which blank is the highest in modulous count out of the three? What is the count of each?

St.Croix-

CTS-

G.loomis-

Blank Mfg don't indicate the modulas of the graphite that goes into their blanks because so many other factors come together to make up the preformance charateristics of a given series of rods. One would hope that the modulas of graphite went up as you paid more for each succsessive series, so the more you pay the higher the modulas of graphite you'd think you should be getting......BUT this may or may not be true, there are so many other factors, the MFG may be able to manipulate them without changing the modulas of graphite used in advancing to the next series of rod blanks they produce.

Grant,
We talk about the modulus of elasticity of blanks but actually modulus of elasticity is a property of the material, graphite or glass, not of the blank. It translates into the stiffness and weight of the blank. As Chris points out there are a number of other variables besides the modulus of the material that also affect the stiffness and the weight including the type and amount of scrim used, the type and amount of resin used, the alignment of the fibers, the diameter and wall thickness of the design chosen, whether the blank has a finish on it or not and others. But the SCV, CTS and GLX are all going to be roughly equivalent in terms of stiffness and weight.

Thank you Emory, Im not sure who on this forum is affiliated with what brands so if I come across as being harsh on someone, that is deffinately not my intention. All I would like is honest answers and I would like to thank everyone for that. This subject is already a bit over my head but like many begining rod builders, I want to know where my money is going when I start to build a rod. Which is why Im asking the questions about the blanks. All other components appear to be fairly equal and we know why we are paying more for Ti guides instead of the same stainless steel versions. The question I cant seem to generate the answer too is: Why are certain manufacturers blanks, like Gloomis around 100.00 more than the others? If they were so superior everyone would be using them correct? Yet, on this forum Loomis is hardly brought up. I have nothing but respect for the rodbuilders on this forum, but I need to know what it is that seperates all the high end blanks besides money.
A blank has to have added value in order to increase in price. With some its notoriety (brand name) others need actual benefits (sensitivity, weight, etc). For me Im interested in the actual benefits a blank can provide. In the end would experienced builders choose blanks mainly on the weight and durablity a person is comfortable with? I say this because from my understanding a person can gain on one end but they will lose on the other.
I have worked for quite a few years with golf shafts so I have a fairly good understanding of what goes into making a graphite shaft. In that industry very tight tollerances are what most companies are searching for and thats what most customers are paying for. Fishing blanks just have me beat all to heck because the goals arent the same and I find myself wondering what can I gain from getting this blank over the next.
As you all can see I tend to over analyze most things I become involved with, call it a passion if you will, but I really enjoy learning new things. Most anyone can throw together a rod and fish with it, I on the other hand want to create some rods I can be proud to fish and proud to say I built it. Again thank you for everyones input in this discussion. I truly enjoy it. Grant

Grant,
One of the reasons that you don't see G Loomis brought up much is that they don't support the rodbuilding side of their business very well, if at all.
At one time people like Gary Loomis was bringing out some real innovations in rod blanks on the bass side that brought the rest of the industry away from the broom handle era to where we are now. The truth is I think everyone has caught up and in many ways exceeded where Loomis is today.
The G Loomis catalogs helped me immensely when I first started out, as he had such great discriptions of what each rod was good for. There was a little hype always in the catalog, but the rod discriptions were well thought out and deversified so you could get a feel, many times, of what the rod may be able to do on other species and presentations. I still own lots of Loomis rods, still ocasionally build on them, but there are so many other nice blanks out there now as you said.