Morning all,

Right, I know I'll be put against the wall and shot for this one, but here it goes.

I'm just speccing up another 6' casting rod rated up to 1.5oz. Naturally it will be spiral, but I'm toying with a two or three guide transition on the grounds of aesthetics. For the size of fish that I'm hitting torque on these guides will not be an issue.

My question is, will a two / three guide transition make a noticible difference to casting distance as opposed to a bumper wrap?

Also, the main guides are to be Fuji LNSG's, should the transition guides be the same, or should I go with LSG's as per bumper wrap.

There, I've done it. Shall I take the blindfold now or later?

Simon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2006 03:06AM by Simon C. Joseph.

Simon,
The Bumper wrap is only one of several variations of spiral wraps that are popular. They ALL are effective and work well. The main advantage of the Bumper wrap is it's simplicity. All of the other methods employ several "transition" guides. There are back issues of RM available that detail all of them

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Yes, the casting distance will be reduced. But from a practical standpoint, not by much.

The easiest way to determine this is to tape up the guides in both styles and go out and cast both set ups. In minutes you'll know if any such loss is enough to worry over. I doubt it will be. But try it for yourself and see.

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Bumper wraps on light to medium seven foot popping rods when throwing 1/8 to 1/4 lead jig head with plastic baits and small corks reduce casting distance. This fishing technique prizes casting distance and it may be best to use transitional spirals. On pitching and flipping bass rods bumper works fine for me.

Mike, my comparison is from spiral to spiral and does not involve a comparison to standard guides on top. I believe there are few hard set rules in this craft and that each case stands on its merits when a specific set of circumstances is involved. On Monday we eat red beans and rice is the only hard fast rule that exists in my simple world.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2006 09:01AM by Bill Stevens.

Reduced???? One of the things that I understood from all of the posts and articles on spiral wraps was that it would NOT reduce casting distance. Did I completely misinterpret everything or has there been a change in thinking??

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Thinking changes all the time, fortunately data does not.

It all depends on line path. Even many set ups with guides-on-top do not offer a straight line path and some spiral wraps with straighter line paths will out cast them. And, vice versa.

The fewer corners your line has to turn the farther you can cast. This is one advantage of the Bumper or Simple Spiral over most other spiral type wraps - the line travels a very straight path.

But unless you're doing either in a very poor manner, any such differences in casting distances is not going to be very much. At the end of a one hundred foot cast, would you consider a loss of maybe a couple or three feet to be monumental?

That's why I like to talk in practical terms. Guys can get too carried away and worried when they hear that such and such a wrap style will reduce their distance, without stopping to consider by what amount. Again, unless you're really doing some very poor guide sizing and placement, you won't find much practical difference between any of the better systems.

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Guys,

Thanks for the rapid responses.

Any comments on style of guide for a two guide transition, i.e. LNSG or low fly guides.

The set up is a seven guide plus tip top. The guide sizes I'm planning are 12, 8, 7, 6, 6, 6, 6. If keeping with the LNSG's, I thought that the transition guides would be 10 and 8 placed at 60 and 120 degrees respectively. If going for LSG fly guides, what sizes do you feel would be appropriate?

Thanks once again.

Simon.

Once you get under the rod, you'd want all the sizes to be the same. If you intend to use transition guides, you'll find that the line only touches them on the side they're pulling to so ring size isn't much of an issue (except on a surf rod with shock leader knots). So they can be relatively small rings.

There is on issue to consider however, and that deals with the action of the rod. Sometimes you'll find that on the bottom of the rod, the line will not contact the first 180 degree guide and you get an unusually long distance between two guides. This can be harmful, in some instances, to the rod blank. So you may have to use a smaller or lower guide on the first 180 degree guide than you do for all the rest. Nothing to worry about, but when you string the thing up the first time, load it and take a look at the line contact in that first 180 degree guide. If you need to, drop down one or go even lower.

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Tom,

Altering the guide sizes slightly, what would you think of a #10 butt, 2x #8 transition gudes followed by #7, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6 plus tip top on the unerside? All LNSG's.

Simon.

The 7 isn't going to help anything and may actually cause the problem I've described above.

Why don't you just tape up a few different configurations and see what they look like. That's the only way you're really going to know what is going to work best for you.

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Guy's ,

Another quick question. Would you feel that a Fuji LNSG #10 is too small for a butt guide. I only ask as previously I've never gone smaller than a #12, but the blank to be built is pretty slim and I'd like to keep things light.

Butt guide ring size and height depends on reel size and height and guide placement. Keep in mind that you can only figure out the best set up for what you're doing by trying some different set ups. Guides are cheap. Very inexpensive. Keep a "test set" around. Something in the cheapest rings and frames you can find. Once you determine what set up is going to work best for you, order the same frame style in whatever ring type you desire.

Obvioiusly, we want to help, but you're at the point now where only by a little trial and error are you going to be able to determine which set up is best for what you're doing.

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