I am having problems with my first rod. I can not get a coat that is not tacky to touch after at least three days. This is my third coat. First coat I am sure my measurments were off a littleand/ or did not mix long enough. Second coat measured carefully and stirred slowly for five minutes, still tacky. Third coat after researching past posts I repeated everything in the second coat and then poured it on foil and mixed again for a little bit. I still hav a slightly tacky finish, better than the first time. I used flexcoat for the rod finish. How do I remove all the tacky rod finish? I want to prevent to prevent this from occurring again.
Thanks,
Jeff

If it's tacky, then you are not getting a proper 1 to 1 ratio or you aren't mixing thoroughly. What are you using to measure your epoxy portions with? How much of each are you measuring?

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First coat I attempted 2cc's of each. The plunger was difficult to push, then all at once it moved to easy. I checked to see how much came out of the syringe and in the measuring. 2nd and 3rd coats I used 4 cc's of each. I figured the problem on the 2nd coat was where I applied it directly from the measuring cup. I using the prefilled flexcoat syringes and measuring by the markings on the tube.

Syringes are the way to go - you seem to be good there and on your amounts. I apply directly from the measuring/mixing cup. Still, almost certainly somewhere you didn't measure or mix thoroughly enough. However, how long are you waiting for the finish to set? I'd give it a couple days at room temperature before I decided that the finish is still tacky.

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Last coat was friday the 18th. I did not check it this morning. In the process of all these coats I have blundered up some of the coats. How do I remove all the tacky rod finish to redo the wraps and start over? I've made to many mistakes in the finish to save it. I thought about fishing with as is and then stripping it down later in the fall or winter. Any possible problems doing that?

Most likey, you'll have to strip off the thread and start over. Shave off the thread with a sharp knife or razor by slicing along on top of the guide feet (do not cut or slice against the rod blank). Peel off the remaining thread and rewrap.

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You sure have had some bad luck. I have been doing this for years. I use a little heat from a butane torch. This takes practice. Once the finish is heated it will liquefy and you can remove the excess with a brush as the rod rotates. ( I think I would give Flex/Coat a call). I do all my measuring in a one ounce graduated measuring cup. Just a hint or 2. # 1 You might want to add extra drop or 2 of resin. This well make the finish set up faster, # 2 Throw that stuff away and start with a new bottle
Good wraps Bob

Hi Jeff,

I just can underline what TK said in regard of the measuring:

I also use syringes which are made for 2ml and taking maximum 3ml. Due to the smaller marks you can get as exact as 1/10th of an ml what should be okay if you mix a batch of in total 4ml.

For mixing I use a small glass how it is used for shots of schnaps here in Germany in combination with the grip of a tea spoon.

If you go with syringes take care to get some which are 100% silicone free (silicone is used in many of them as a lubricant for easy and steady gliding but a good pharmacist should be able to tell you, at least th emanufacturer should ) because silicone can badly influence the result I was said.


Never faced problems like you mentioned. Take care that you will stay within recommended temperature range of manufacturer.

RGDS,
Ole

Also, when you mix up your next batch, make sure you scrape up the bottom of the cup and scrape the sides very well now and then during the mixing. When you think you've scraped enough, do it some more. And when you think you have it mixed enough, mix it some more.

Thanks for all the help. Just wondering what to do if all the finish does come off with the threads. Will it scrape off with your finger nail and do I clean the blank with anything before I rewrap, since it is not curing?

When mixing that amount (more than 1-2 cc's) it is hard to be off enough to affect the finish that badly when measuring with a syringe. If you try to make 0.5 cc, you could be off enough to affect it, but not likely with 2 or 4 cc.

The temp/humidity of the room is one possibility, silicone in the syringe not- as you used the pre-filled ones. If all the coats were from the same syringes of Flex Coat, I think you got a bad batch. If they were from different batches, must be the room environment.



Anyway, to answer your first question, I have been there. Just finished redoing a rod because of the Cabela's packets of finish that came with a kit not firming up properly. I "remedied" it by putting more coats on top, which is a BAD idea. The rod ended up feeling a lot different due to the 6-8 total coats it needed in the long run, plus the sticky underneath coats started to work their way out.

I don't think it hurt me in the long run- the rod fished well in the meantime. What I ended up doing is removing everything with a razor- cut the thread at one end and unpeel it all. You can't remove the sticky stuff and keep the wraps in place as far as I know.

I don't think you ought to clean the blank after (if) the tacky finish does come off. You'll most likley just add to your problems. If it looks like stink after it's off, bite the bullet and rewrap. Mick's advice is perfect, I wonder how he learned the "mix it more" trick!!!!!

At this point, I think that I would bite the bullet and completely strip it, wipe the blank with alcohol and completely start over. At this point, you have so much on there, you probably will never know if or when it will vure. Take everybody's advice and be VERY exact when you measure via syringe and mix well. Let us know what happens!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Not sure, but it is possible that if your first coat was off real bad either in the mixing or ratio it could be affecting the additional coats causing them to stay tacky. I would suggest any time you have a bad coating. You remove it before adding another

Jeff,

Did you get the email I sent you?

DR

Grant, how did I learn this? Being a wise-elbow, I wish I could say it was from humorous experience, but it is from my granduncle who taught me rodbuilding over 25 years ago. There are a lot of guys here that I respect immensely, but my Uncle Franny (Frank Swiscowski in the Toledo OH area) taught me things that I still find true to this day. In the areas of finish, what comes to mind are:

"You spent a good part of life building a nice rod.. don't ruin it by rushing the finish"

"bad finish defiles the virtue of good thread"

"Don't trust other people. If you measure it yourself, the right way.. it will be right" (foil packs just might have the occasional air bubble to throw off the measurement)

"The boys who made the finish, and wrote the directions on how to use it, are a lot smarter than you kid... listen to them"

"Would you pour coffee on the thread and call it finish? NO? Then stop stirring it like it's a cup of coffee and start mixing it"

"Bubbles only happen to people who don't care"

There were many other great nuggets, but all I can say is that the only time in over 25 years that I have had a finish NOT set up, is when I violated the rules to try and make it not set up. If you use finish the way you are supposed to, it will set up without fail. I'm not saying that you can't improvise, because some folks do. (What Doc Ski does makes me shudder) But I've used it in hot, cold, dry, humid, every combination, exactly the way I was told to use it, and during these years, at least with a lot of Flex Coat, it works as advertised, and I've never had a bad batch. Had weird stuff happen in the bottles while waiting to be used, but this finish, like many others, if you follow directions in the proper way, they will work. If they don't, it's because you screwed up.

JEFF


BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT. HOWEVER SEEMS LIKE EVERYTIME IT HAS HAPPENED, WAS BECAUSE I DONT SEEM TO GET RATIO OF MIXTURE CORRECT. WHAT I DO IS START OVER BY REMOVING THE GUIDE AND START OVER FROM STEP 1! BY THE WAY PUT ANOTHER COAT ON A SPINNING ROD LAST NIGHT AT ABOUT 21:00 HRS AND WHEN I GOT UP THIS MORNING 05:30 IT WAS NOT TACKY. MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT!

Duane I got your e-mail. I didn't get online last night. I sent you one today. Last night I mixed a new batch and found some small plastic medicine syringes to use, instead of going by numbers on the flexcoat syringe. I have a four piece rod. Earlier finishes were on half the rod. This batch last night was not on top of any other finish. This morning it looked better and seemed to be curing better. Finish felt firm, but just a little sticky after seven hours. I think my problem was measuring by the flexcoat syringe. I will update tommorow. Still plan on stripping and redoing it this fall/winter, because some of finish just looks to sloppy and to many mistakes. Thanks for for all the help everyone

Jeff I just replied to your email.

Sounds like it may not be that bad afterall. Give the finish 3 days at LEAST and see what you have.

DR

After this many attempts, strip and retie. When appling the thread epoxy next time count on putting on two coats, THIN COATS. The 1st removing some after well saturating threadwraps and filling tunnels. Once the 1st coat cures properly, knock down any burrs with an exacto knife between coats. Apply 2nd thin coat. Thin coats allow you to add a thrid coat if necessary and not have extreme build up

The spreading thread epoxy on foil trick is to remove bubbles and doing so does cut into your working time. To avoid bubbles Rod Maker mag Vol 6 #4 in 2003 shows an automated thread epoxy mixer. Now you may not have to build one, but if you look at the principals involved you may adapt some of the aspects and avoid the introduction of bubbles in the 1st place.

The artical shows an angled mixing cup attached to a motor with a steel ball bearing inside the cup that does the mixing. When you mix by hand (swirling) you entrain air into the mixture when combining. I do two things when hand mixing 1.) I tip the cup up on an angle and only use 1/2 the cup when adding the components and mixing. One side wet , one dry 2.) I continually scrape the one 1/2 side of the cup where combined components are as the cup is still tipped with a brush handle of a disposable brush. I lay the handle flat against the side and sweep flat over the cups side ( I do scratch at the bottom of the cup up to the level the epoxy reached inside it) but mainly make a wave scraping flat over just one side (inside) of the angled mixing cup over and over, never really lifting the handle. A swirling action with the mixing handle/impliment will entrain air/bubbles into the mixture which is what we are all trying to avoid. I mix to the standard 3 minutes watching the mixture 1st go cloudy the become clearer and more uniform.

The key is to not spread out the mixture over the inside of the entire cup so the scratching/swirling it takes to cover the increased inside surface area and the air bubbles it entrains, is reduced to a minimum, plus you slide over the side (inside) of the cup surface rarely lifting the mixing inpliment so no bubbles are draged back down into the mix as the impliment returns/swirls. Good mixing does not have to entrain air bubbles as evidence of Tom's Mixer or good sound mixing proceedures barring that... additional working time reducing steps namely, foil or heated remedies to remove them

And if I have my ratio correct, which I always do because I achieve a 50/50 or 1:1 ratio BY VOLUME by weighing each component and adjusting the weight to a corresponding volume so even my very small mixtures cure to the light touch in 12 hours (temp dependent) to the touch and exacto knifeable (burrs) in 24 hrs, and to pressure in 48 hrs which the additional 24, I gladly endure, just for insurance