I hear this a lot on this forum but regardless of how "bubble free" I make epoxy before applying it to thread there is a certain amount of air trapped in the thread that gets pushed out when epoxy is applied. The only way to get rid of air bubbles caused by this is to apply a little heat. Am I missing something here???????

Scott,

In my "opinion" if the epoxy you use is thin, you can get by without heat most of the time. If the epoxy is thicker and faster cureing, I like using the heat to remove any tiny bubbles.

I pour out my mixed epoxy onto a flat foil, and what I do not use, sets and hardens. I've noticed bubbles ON that flat foil after it has cured with the faster curing epoxy's. The slower thinner epoxys will be bubble free on the foil.

Thick fast cure gets heat

Thin slower cure = no heat.

Works for me.

DR

your own breath delivered thru a straw will work also.


Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Wouldn't that also be heat application? Depending on room temperature and individual body temperature, your elevating the temperature of the resin 20 to30 degrees F.

That's one way to look at it for sure but what you are
really doing is effecting the surface tention by changing
the air pressure around the wrap and epoxy thereby
making it easier for the bubbles to come to the surface
and pop. If your breath raises the temp. a bit so be it.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

also cp is absorbed by the thread and disapates air there by when fisish is added less air will escape from the thread in the first place.

A gentle application of heat, from a flame held several inches under a wrap for just a couple or three seconds is usually all that would be required to release bubbles, if such a thing is necessary. What isn't necessary and what doesn't help the final properties of the epoxy, is the application of intense heat - torching, heating until the epoxy becomes thin and runny, etc.

Many get by without heating at all. At most, all you should need to do is just apply a very gentle application of heat from a flame, again held under the wrap by several inches, just for a very few seconds as you rotate the rod.

........

If you use a cigarette lighter I would hold heat over wrap instead of under. soot from flame can discolor epoxy.
not a problem with an alcohol lamp

You won't get any soot on the wrap or finish unless you allow the flame to touch the wrap. That's why I mentioned to keep it several inches under the wrap.

...........

Tom;
That makes sense.
Maybe that’s what I did. but since have held flame over wrap when using lighter with out problems



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2006 07:35AM by Steve Gardner.

Your method is equally good and an alcohol lamp is a nice accessory for a custom rod building shop to have.

..............

I quit needing to heat finish when I changed from Flex-Coat to LS Supreme a few years ago. Now that I use ThreadMaster I still don't need to heat the finish. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

A new solution to little finish bubbles!

I was a torcher until very recently. My skin problems with epoxy sensitivation were (and are) related to my work practices.

1. Direct Contact - excessive wipe up with paper towells wet with denatured alcohol
2. No protection - no gloves, no long sleeves, extremely hot shop (vapor pressue amines)
3. Poor work practice (while torching for air bubble release holding exposed left hand and arm behind rod for heat control)
4. Staying in the small shop with rods turning and drying
4. Desire for perfectly clear finish over black thread (absolutely no bubbles)

I am now on the way to recovery with the help of many builders. Thanks to Ralph my torching days are now in the past! He put the fear of ROT in me pretty strongly.

My rods now have the new and improved thread finish which contains of an infinite number of Sound Amplyfing Chambers & Sensing Voids that Amplify Sound and increase the Sensitivity of Gon Fishn Rods.

Please no Jumping Monkey!

Gon Fishn




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2006 08:45AM by Bill Stevens.

Bill,
I think that you may be the monkey and I think that I am going to jump on you. But if you are attempting to bait me you are going to have to be more subtle than that.

Scott
My experience is that with some of the low viscosity finishes and care you can avoid any bubbles but not with the thicker finishes. I use Flex Coat almost exclusively and there are always bubbles in my finish. In fact, I think that at least some of the bubbles I am not introducing when I apply the Flex Coat but are the result of air that is trapped in and under the thread that slowly works its way out and I do not see any way to avoid these bubbles. It also seems that the longer after I mix the finish and the thicker it gets before I apply it to a particular guide the more bubbles there will be trapped under it. Some of the bubbles will not show up for awhile, sometimes as long as 10 or 15 minutes so I always heat the finish after applying it with a Bubble Buster. When I do heat it I almost always get bubbles that come to the surface regardless of how careful that I have been when mixing and applying the finish. I have been doing this for years and the only problem that I have ever had with this technique is if I wait too long before applying the heat.
By the way, I have watched epoxy being applied to wraps at Lamiglas, Loomis and D & E Rods and they all apply a little heat to the epoxy immediately after it is on the wraps.

I have never gotten a bubble in he left over epoxy that hardens on the foil. What I used to think were bubbles in the epoxy on the thread wraps generaly turn out to be defects in the thread work. A tag end not clipped, or fuzz from the thread. So I have quit heating flex coat. And now it comes out flatter and better. I do use 2 or 3 coats, so that I get a chance to fix some of the defects brought out by the first coat.

Bill,
I will certainly agree with you that you will have less problems with bubbles if you use multiple thin coats rather than the one coat that I usually use. But I will bet you a nickle to an old stale donut that I can find bubbles in your finish if you are using a thcker finish like Flex Coat and not heating it.

I understand why some are not getting air bubbles in the leftover epoxy sitting on tin foil. It is an impervious surface. But for those of you not getting small bubbles rising from the initial thread coat it seems that your epoxy is sitting on the surface of the thread rather than penetrating the thread directly to the guide foot where residual air has to be located. The only way to get rid of this air is through your epoxy. Which is why I think that low amounts of heat are essential to the INITIAL thread coat. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for water intrusion around the guide foot by not completely encapsulating the guide foot with epoxy.

If CP is used and used correctly the wraps are
sealed and the epoxy has no place to go but sit
on top.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

If you use finish over black thread and do not apply any heat Take one of your rods out in the bright sun and take a real close look. If you do not see any evidence of small bubbles or "haze" at all I would love to watch you at work. There are two kinds of bubbles that I deal with. The ones that come out of the thread can be mostly handled with thin multiple coats. The small micro bubbles in the mix, not the ones caused by localized overheating, are the ones that plague me. I am going to get one of the mechanical stirring devices since I can no longer torch.

I never use CP because I would rather saturate the thread and underlying guide foot with epoxy rather than CP. I have no proof that epoxy offers more protection from water intrusion than CP this is just my belief.