First i would like to thank everyone on this board for all the help in getting information about this trade that has got me hooked more than the fish .

I am a tournament bass fisherman and thanks to this board i gained the knowledge to build my own rods.

My question i have for you all today involves GRIPS. Why do you all spend so much time making a grip pretty with by adding things like tru oil and and thread finish to grips? Do you who build these rods even fish? I can tell you from personal experince and frustration these ideas are not pratical for anyone who actually plans to use the rod to fish with . I dont know about you but i fish hard with my rods and Everyone knows that adding tru oil or epoxy finsh on makes them slick so why do it. These grips can get slick from adverse weather, slime from a fish, or even just sweaty palms, everything you encounter on a normal day of fishing. All these things can lead to you loosing your grip and loosing your fish even your rod.

We call them GRIPS for a reason.

While i am on this subject I also would like to talk about cork grips find major flaws in the quality cork because it only last a few years at best of hard fishing and will get almost as slick as tru oil and finish under the same normal FISHING conditions.

That being said i can see only one option for true fisherman and that is Flocking grips this improves your grip a tremendous amount in ANY fishing condition. Flocking is the only thing i will put on every rod i build from now on.There are so many reasons for this but the main one is that it lasts forever.

Why would you ever put a grip on that isn't FLOCKED? And forget the rest

All that typing, you get a simple answer. Custom - to each his own. Nuff said.

I have several rods that I use that have wooden grips with spar varnish on them and use them all the time. I fish walleye in the spring up here in MN and as you can guess that means wet, I have never experience a slippery handle on any of my rods.

You should try something with varnish or true oil on them before you make judgements on how they will perform.

Cody.
Where do I start? If you don't understand why custom rod builders love to build rods "ALL PURDY" then I guess you must drive a beige Volvo. And I have only ever come a cross the "slippery when wet" argument from complete novices before. I have been building and retailing rods through my shop, with all manner of different grips mostly in wood. We use wood only with the right characterists to be both be impervious to water and non slip, wood with a high silicone content such as Cocobolo, Bocote and a like. I usually put the wood grip under a tap and hand it to them, end of argument! Sure you don't need all that fancy colours and wood on a rod, just like you don't need glitter in Bass boat to catch em! But it would be a dull old world if they were all just white gel coat. Cody next time your fishing look down at hand and have a look at just how much of that "GRIP" your holding? If it is spin rod chances are you will be holding the reel seat with a split finger grip and your casting rods will have your pointer finger wrapped around the trigger when you cast then your hand palming the reel on the retrieve. If you on the other hand look down and find you are holding just the bottom of the grip this could explain why you are in danger of throwing your rod away, best buy a bungee cord and strap it to your wrist. Your thread reminds of a time I was brousing through a tackle shop and a guy was quizing the shop owner as to how on earth he could justify selling this G.luminous GLX (cody read G.Loomis) casting rod for so much money. The guy looked up from the counter and said "Son if I have to explain it to you, then you ain't ready for that rod! Put it down, the Ugly sticks are over in the corner!"

Regards Paul.
ps: Felt Flock was invented to jazz up the inside of beige Volvo's (just kidding)

There are probably almost as many opinions on this subject as there are fishermen or builders. Me, I like cork grips sanded to 400 grit to finish with a satin smooth feel. For me; flocking/no. hypalon or other foam grips/no. Some wood grips are beautiful, but I don't know if I'd like the feel or not. Rattan wrapped grips, the same opinion as wood grips. If you want your cork grips to be less slick, sand them with 150 or 180 grit sandpaper. I promise you will have a firmer grip. I may disagree with your opinion, but it is as valid as mine and the others out there. I saw a grip the other day made from pine bark and sealed with, I think, Tru-Oil. It looked awesome but will it hold up? Who knows? It is still awesome. Cody, enjoy your flocked grips, I'll enjoy my cork. Oh, my answer to your first question is that I/we try to put a little beauty and/or art out there. I'm no artist, but, maybe some day. Ralph

If at first you don't succeed, go fishing, then try, try again.

I'm surprised no one has asked about the quality of cork you used. It may be more expensive, but, the high drade cork is worth using. Put cork sealer on, and after a few years, light sand and reapply the sealer. As for the foam grips a little soap and water does wonders for clean up.
I use TruOil and have no complaints as to date, from both customers and myself. I too am a hard and heavy tournement fisherman. In no way can I have a rod and it's components fail during prefishing or the tourney. That is one of the things that got me into rod building.

Mark Syck

SYCKO Custom Rods
There Are No Limits To The Imagination

Cody,

First of all, what makes a grip easy or hard to hang onto has little to do with the surface finish. It's the shape that determines how easily it can either be lost or held firmly. Most hammers are made with hard and slick wood or fiberglass handles, and yet they don't fly out of a sweaty carpenter's hand very easily. A cork grip coated with Tru-Oil or Cork Seal will last longer and repel slime, dirt, etc. , but is not necessarily hard for the fisherman to hang onto, even when wet.

As you point out, function is very important - the most important thing for a rod that is intended to be fished. But there are cosmetic enhancements that actually do more than make a grip look "pretty." They can also make the item even more functional or durable over the long haul.

.............

I've found the burl/ etc. grips I turn myself to be much more "slip resistant" in all weather conditions than standard cork. And a coating or two of tru-oil improves that even more - try it, you'll like it. Like Billy said, that's why it's custom. If you don't like it, then chances are you are wasting your time building rods. Another tip - carry a rag with you in the boat. Catch a fish, wipe off your hands, pick up rod. "Do you who build these rods even fish?" That's an arrogant statement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2006 08:40AM by Rich Handrick.

I hope most will take the time to read this post. I was somewhat behind Cody's initial post and it really did not come off as we wanted it too. Cody is a huge man and one whale of a bass fisherman. He placed fourth in a big money professional bass regional tournament a couple of weeks ago. He is using spiral wrapped rods he built and he is quite proud of his rods and his fishing skill.

Cody's hands are quite large and he uses only casting rods with split grips. Cody is following the Rich Forhan school for his builds. When he came by my shop after one of his tournments all of his rods were wrapped with the grip leather wrap that is available from the Bass Megastores. Most of the tournament guys down here do the same. I have been involved in flocking grips and I asked him why did he feel that the flocked grips had not been accepted by fishermen in general. There was no real answer to this except low exposure of fishermen to the flocked surface. He told me they all think the flock will not stay on the rods and will quickly peel off. Cody has tried them for feel and likes the surface.

When you are fishing with a casting rod only the heel of the hand is in contact with the grip surface near the reel seat. The diameter of the grip is important but the shape of a long rear cork surface is really not involved to a great degree. When this small area in contact with your hand gets slick with fish slime or sweat it is quite uncomfortable and takes a lot of valuable time to wash and wipe off. The real issue is not with casting but bait working with the off hand and fish fighting. Rod twisting and slipping at that time can be a real issue.

I do an awful lot of speckled trout fishing and in the heat of battle with schooled trout a grip can quickly become so slick you can not deal with it without stopping - washing it off - drying to continue fishing. I have posted a number of pictures of people holding fish in my boat and all have a rag in their hand. Some board responses have chastised the "wimps" for holding a fish with a rag but it is almost necessary. I have had three rods slip out of customers hands this summer and get thrown in the water. All of the sunken rods were treated with multiple coats of True Oil.

I asked Cody to make a post on the board about his feelings on what a fisherman wants in a grip to see if there was any real interest in the flocked surfaces or if there is anything a custom builder can do to improve grip surface for certain fishermen. I can sell a rod with a flocked grip to someone who has fished with one but they are a tougher sell than a spiral wrapped rod to someone who has not used one. They do not get slick with sweat or water

I am looking for that grip edge that just may get some of the bassers to buy my rods vs putting tape on all the stuff they use.

Cody - thanks for posting - I will take the heat on this one! I am sorry some see this as a beauty and the beast comparison.

Gon Fishn

Bill.
Let me get this right! Did you ask someone to post a thread putting down guys who to build rods with wood grips in order to sell more rods with flocked grips? Cause that's what your last post just read like! If you have customers throwing wood grip rods away, it is more than likely you are using too heavy wood because with the right wood and finish this simply does not happen.
Regards Paul.

Bill, I was about to post to this myself, in much the same manner as the others who already have. I read your post carefully and understand the point Cody was trying to make, but attacking other rod builders and questioning their fishing skills was, to put it quite nicely, not very good form. I agree that a flocked grip may have a better "non-skid" feel than a finished piece of wood/cork, but in my fishing for slimey cats, I don't have too much trouble with my shiny grips. Also, I have never forced anybody to use a finished grip and doubt many others have either. I give people a choice and let them feel unfinished vs finished and 9 out of 10 choose the finished, even after trying them wet, many of these folks being tournament bass folks.. who also know how to fish and can be very particular about their rods. What he may like is just that... his preference... to say that because I may not share that opinion, I don't know what I'm doing...

Bill,

As usual you make some very good points, and you know that it was the article in RodMaker on do-it-yourself flocking that brought this technique to the masses. I certainly think that nylon flock is one the very best surfaces you can put on a grip. But, I also think that if you add up all the rods that get tossed overboard each year, you will find that the rods had all manner of grip types and surfaces - wood, cork, Tru-Oil, EVA, Hypalon, leather, tommy-tape, etc.

In other words, it's not so much the particular type grip used that sends them overboard, but fumble fingered anglers.

...........

BIll - I'll give my answer on flocked grips. Keep in mind I've never really fished with on outside of about 5 minutes with the "old" flock which was a lot longer and much rougher on the hands, especially when wet. Some LOVE those grips, I absolutely HATED them.

The New flock seems a lot more comfy to hold - I haven't fished with it, nor will I though. The concerns I have is when it gets wet with fish slime, bait slime, or whatever gook - and I do not clean it - will it mat together? Will it get moldy? Will it fall apart? Do I really want to fish with a fuzzy beaver grip? lol. Do I like the look?

Obviously I do not have any of thee answers, but these may be some of the obstacles you're dealing with. While many people claim all they care about is functionality, the TRUTH is they care how things look more than anything else. That's the reason peopel are so aprehensive to use Spiral rods, and it's probably the main reason they stay away from Flock.

For Cody - do we fish with these grips? I have grips on my & a few of my customers rods which have taken 20 hours to create. I have rods with 10 hours of threadwork on them. Yeah, ALL my rods are fished, thats teh whole reason to make them. Fishing tools #1, looks #2. Just because I spend a full 24 hours on some rods, doesn't mean squat - I fish them very hard, but I do admit to taking very good care of my stuff. Even if I didn't it wouldn't matter, I enjoy doing what I do, and if a 20 hour grip gets beat to crap - then that's good as that means the person using it likes the rod and uses it often. All rods should be spanked. lol.

First, I think that post was arrogant and very condescending. There are probably a million tournament anglers out there. Anyone with ther entry fee can be one. That being said, I love flocked grips but I love wood grips even more. Anyone that thinks that wood grips are slipprier when wet is all wet!! It simply is not true. " Everyone knows that adding tru oil or epoxy finsh on makes them slick " Where did that myth ever start?? Obviously. Cody hasn't fished with many of them. Tru Oil is a gunstock finish and I never heard of anyone complaining that their guns were sliding out of their hands when hunting in cold wet weather! I have seen pro tournament anglers fishing with the shrink wrap still on their grips!. I suppose the wild metallic gelcoat bass boats are pure function!!!

As far as "pretty". why not?? The functionality of a custom rod is foremost, but after that, why not??? It's all personal preference, as is the decision to fish tournaments! There are builders who vist this forum who fish in excess of 200 days a year and DON'T fish tournaments. Does that make them less of a fisherman than a tournament angler?? I don't think so - any more than a tournament angler is any better than a non tournament angler.
Being a tournament angler doesn't make one any more knowledable about building rods than being a race car driver makes one more knowledgable about building cars!

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2006 10:18AM by Mike Barkley.

Billy,

Flocked grips don't get matted nor rot nor mold nor come apart. Not if they're properly done, anyway. For many years they were considered the cadillac of all the various rod grip types. They were found on many of the more expensive big games rod built by Biscayne, Fin-Nor and Melton. But they were also very expensive - you would easily spend $25 for a single flocked trolling rod grip. They fell out of favor primarily because of their price, not because they had any real faults.

I can see where some fishermen might have felt they were a bit too "prickly" or something. When I started working with Donjer a few years ago I got them to move to a shorter fiber which worked better for do-it-yourself flocking in a hand operated gun. As you mention, it's a little less prickly in the hand now. Still won't be everyone's cup of tea, but they do make a very nice grip both in function and appearance.

The leather wrapped grips pretty much took over the commercial big game trolling grip market. They were far less expensive, but they do not hold up nearly as well over the long haul. Of course, they're easy to redo.


..............

Cody - You have found what you like in a grip and that is great. I think your flocked grips are both pretty and impractical (you wanted my opinion correct?). Only a sissy bass guy would be caught dead with a grip like that. Did you use pink or purple flock? I hope you enjoy the added weight (everybody knows that) and the loss of sensitivity (you must know about that) you will gain from adding a dampening layer to your lightweight cork grips.

I was watching one of the automotive build/rebuild type reality shows the other day (can't remember which one) and one of the guys was flocking an interior part...using what appeared to be one of the yellow Donjer cans to sprinkle on the black flocking material. I said, "cool"

Jay

Cody:

#1 Wash or wipe your hands & be careful with all the gunk & Stink spray"s BEFORE PICKING UP YOUR ROD....
#2 Learn MORE about the craft and art of building a TRUE CUSTOM ROD that you would not use as a tournament rod that gets thrown down and walked on and slammed arround in rod lockers . I myself have stoped building for that type of fishing.
#3 The fish that are caught on a well built flashy rod to me have a little more class than the average Bass!

Good luck & Tight Lines
Bill Rice

I was fly fishing last year in a light mist and the grip seemed a little slick. I had some Tourney Grip in a bag in the car from a tennis match I had played earlier. I wrapped it over the handle. But my casting stroke fell apart. For some reason I kept casting from low to high and the fly was landing with a lot of topspin on it. So I took it off and went back to what I was used to.

I'm assuming that Josh is kidding. The flock doesn't add enough weight to be noticeable and it certainly isn't going to harm the sensitivity to any degree that you'd be able to measure with the human hand.

In the end, everybody knows what they like. Rich Forhan is a pretty well respected rod builder and his rods are completely without any sort of cosmetic embellishments. They're just made to do the job, nothing more. Other builders feel want to not only use their rods but have something that they can be very proud of as well. There are plenty of very expensive and well ornamented firearms that would shoot just as well without the highly figured wood, checkering or engraving, but their owners enjoy using something that they feel is both functional and beautiful.

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