why do some guys only do that and some wont and so on??? is it hard to do? What rod applications is it better on?

thanks

I've got one spiral wrapped rod. It's my favorite grouper digger and seems to work well. I can't imagine using one for casting, but maybe someone knows better. I just used the same spacing that I'd use on a non-spiral wrapped rod and rotated by eyeball. Maybe I was lucky but it works well. I used those American Tackle Turbo titanium guides.

I did it as an experiment or just for the heck of it. I'm happy with the outcome, but will probably not do it again; not because I'm disatisfied, but just because I want to do something else. I'm starting on a new grouper digger shortly and will probably go conventional.

IMO, a spiral wrap is the ONLY way to wrap any casting rod (Notice that I said MY opinion)! I think that more and more builders are switching over to it. It is incredibly easy to set up (the simple "bumper" system is pretty much a no-brainer). It pretty much eliminates rod torque and makes a big difference in fighting fish and reducing fatigue. If you do a search here for Simple spiral, bumper wrap or just spiral wrap, you will get enough reading material to last you until the big show in High Point!! If you don't already have them, get hold of the Rodmaker back issues that deal with them.

Other than the strange looks/comments ("were you drunk when you built that rod?"), I don't think that there is a downside to it.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Benefits of Spiral Wrapping:
Reduction of Rod Roll-Over Effect (External Torque) from the conventional Guides-On-Top configuration. Putting the Guides UNDER the rod blank provides a much more stable load for the bent rod. Spiral Wrapping also reduces the rod's TORSION (Internal Torque or "Twisting").

Why do some guys only do that (Spiral Wrap):
because ... they see the benefits.

... and some won't ... ?:
because ... they'll tell you.

Is it hard to do?:
Not using the Simple Spiral "Bumper Wrap"
Read RMM-8(2) April 2005 by Bill Colby + TK.

What rod applications is it better on?
Just about any casting rod or conventional rod.

Good Luck, ... -Cliff Hall, FL-USA.

I have many of both But have built only spirals for last 10 years.
Advantages on top of what has already been said
It gives you the best features of both (spinning and bait casters) while eliminating the negatives
1. Sensitivity and casting distance of spinning.
2. Accuracy and power of bait caster
3. Can only be obtained from custom builders
4. If you use braided line. You’ll have less problems with braid getting tangled on guides that are facing up. especially when flipping and pitching.

About a year ago I had my first spiral bind casting rod built more out of curiosity than anything else. After about 3 casts I was sold and I would never have another conventional bound casting rod. We catch a lot of big Mullaway here in Oz ( very simular to your Redfish) flipping soft plastic baits around bridge pylons and rocky reefs. Typically 30lb plus braid is the line of choice and with a conventional bound rod, tip wrapping is a big problem and I have in the past set the hook with line wrapped around the tip "Ouch!" With the spirals this rarely happens. Here we also tend to lose one guide towards the tip as well. Shimano in Australia are about to release a range of production rods spiral bound, does any large US company commercially produce spiral wraps?
Regards Paul.
Ps: Here we tend build them off to the right for right hand casting reels and left for left handed reels. Mainly so the handle protects the offset guides laying in rod lockers. Do US builders do the same?

Steve,
I would be interested in why you think that sensitivity is better with a spinning rod and also why you think that casting distance for other than light weights is better with a spinning rod. I do not think that I agree with you about the casting distance other than when casting light weights but I have never thought about the sensitivity of spinning versus casting rods. I am not looking for an argument It is just an interesting question.

I doubt there is any actual change in the sensitivity - there would be nothing in having the guides on one side or the other that should have any effect on that aspect of a rod. My only thought would be that if the rod balances better and is easier to hold, it may just plain "feel better" which could lead to a perceived increase in sensitivity.

............

Tom,
OK, then I have to ask why does a spinning rod necessarily balance any better than a casting rod?

Bad choice of words on my part - by virtue of the spinning reel hanging from the rod rather than sitting on top, the rod is easier to hold. The weight of the reel doesn't have to be counteracted - it just hangs there. On a casting rod some amount or effort, minor though it may be, is required to keep the reel up on top where it's supposed to be. With a spiral wrap, once the rod is loaded the effect of the load through the guides underneath the rod tend to automatically hold the reel upright.

As I said, any increase in sensitivity is most likely simply perceived because the outfit is a bit easier to handle.

.......................

I think you can gain part of thet more sensitive feeling by using less guides....because you don't need as many guides. With a regular casting rod you need more guides to keep the line off the blank when it flexs. Even if it only one or 2 guides I think it is noticeable.

With lighter rods you won't notice the torque trying to twist the rod over as much as with a heavy boat rod...but after a full day of fishing I still feel less fatigue in my hands and wrists with the bumper system.

Tom,
OK, I will buy that.

Joe,
You might be right if you mean that because there are fewer guides there will be lower frictional losses and therefore better sensitivity. But I would think that the friction at the bail and also the way the line tends to ride all around the inside of the last guide on a spinning rod would make it come out about even or maybe the casting rod might even have a little lower frictional losses. My guess would be that the difference would not be significant though.

Emory,

I don't know why....but it feels more like a bare blank to me with less guides. I equate this feeling somehow to the rod feeling more sensitive, less sluggish. I feel like you can tell this without even putting a reel on the rod so I don't know that it is friction related...maybe just the mass of the extra guides,thread, and epoxy????

Paul,

I have seen Fenwick spiral rods...years ago...and I have seen Loomis spiral rods in a catalog. The Fenwick was a donrigger rod that was used on the great lakes and I beleive they called it "The Twist" this was late 80's early 90's .The guy that owned it loved it...but I think the general public wouldn't go for it...thought it looked weird so they went away.

Emory:
That has just been my observation over the years. Maybe because of what Tom said. Maybe because of what Joe said. I have never tried to break it down as to exactly why.
Its just the way it is. who knows maybe I'm just a lunatic.
Maybe I did something different in building spinning rods that I didn't do in bait casters until I started building with spiral wraps.
I'm not an engineer So it doesn't matter to me why.
I am a fisherman that fishes as many as 200 days a year.
All that maters is that they do, period.
I will give it some thought over the next couple of weeks, and if I come up with a profound answer I will let you know.

Steve,
That sounds good to me. I would be interested in anything that you come up with.

I believe the spiral wrap is the better way to do things but I stop short of some of the claims I saw factory reps making. I once saw the Bud Earhardt rep at a show telling customers that their spiral wrapped rods were more sensitive because the line rested in the top of the ring instead of the bottom. Looked like snake oil to me and it turned me off. I didn't want to ever do the same thing to any of my customers.

I get what Steve is saying and would agree that my spiral wrapped rods just handle and feel better. I can't say they are more sensitive and won't make that claim. I will say that they seem nicer to fish with.

My reasons to build spiral whenever I can sell the customer the first one. Never had one new customer who was not referred ask for one. Never have been able to sell a new customer a spiral first - they will buy one after knowing that my rods are sound, personalized and good fit and finish.

1. Fewer broken rods due to high sticking than casting guides on top. Almost same return rate as spinning.

2. Ladies, children and couch potatos can easily handle a large fish on stand ups without rod rotation.

3. A customer will not go back to the retail discount outlet after he has used one except for a Zebco for the grandchild.

4. Can use a fast taper composite blank with fewer guides on heavy tuna standups. Simplifies build on complex flag blank layups and make testing set ups easier for fast and extra fast taper rods.

5. Confirms that I am nuts! They know that I will have nothing to do with sensitivity training!

6. After they use one on the charter and ask where can they get one of those funny looking rods - then I can honestly say the only place I know of is at my shop! Wally World don't got none! If they like it the only bargaining power they have is how bad and they can not say I can get it cheaper at 888888888888!

7. Add On: Fewer broken tips from bassers who yank a fish from cover with a loop around tip with a conventional. Emory how does a missing tip effect resonation frequency?

Gon Fishn



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2006 12:27PM by Bill Stevens.

Is spiral wrap still superior in the lighter casting rods? We mostly use 7' medium to medium light rods spooled w/ 12lb test on trout and reds. Still a great idea? After a full morning of wading and casting, anything that reduces fatigue sounds great, but it seems like I hear more about spiral in the heavier rods.

New to the forum, building my 1st rod, thinking out design and components now.

Steve

Is spiral wrap still superior in the lighter casting rods? We mostly use 7' medium to medium light rods spooled w/ 12lb test on trout and reds. Still a great idea? After a full morning of wading and casting, anything that reduces fatigue sounds great, but it seems like I hear more about spiral in the heavier rods.

New to the forum, building my 1st rod, thinking out design and components now.

Steve