Good evenin' folks,
I wanted to give you guys what I feel is some very very good news. Stephen Pratt from CTS and I have been working on a project which I am very excited to see come to fruition. It's a new line of blanks called The Pro Series.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the current top of the line CTS Tournament Elite Series, basically it's a blank constructed of 33msi or 44msi (depending on the model) in the tip of the rod and 57msi in the mid/butt, coupled with a carbon helical core. The lack of glass scrim (or any scrim at all) in these blanks makes for what is arguabley the lightest, (all things being equal) strongest, most sensitive blanks available. Anyone who has used these blanks will attest to that, and the scales don't lie. However the use of 57msi material, and the more tedious, laboriuos helical layup commands a higher price tag than the more common/economical scrim based layups currently being used by 99% of the well known manf.
The advantage to the helical layup is that it effectively reduces the weight of the blank by aproximately 15%-20%. Most low to mid-level blanks(and even some upper level blanks) now days are constructed with a fiberglass scrim.As everyone knows, fiberglas scrim is heavy and is a fairly open weave which requires a decent amount of resin to adequately wet out the layup, both of which contribute to excess weight in the blank. The standard ratio of glass scrim to carbon in your average blank is about 24 grams of glass to 150 grams of carbon. So you can see that quite a bit of your graphite rod is still fiberglass.
The CTS Pro Series changes all that. What we have done is taken the industry standard 33msi carbon, and combined it with a helical layup....NO FIBERGLASS SCRIM is used in any of these blanks at all....there is in fact NO SCRIM PERIOD.
What you now effectively have is a blanks constructed from industry standard 33msi that is 15%-20% lighter in weight than comparable blanks, resuting in lighter weight, better sensetivity, better crush resistance, better resistance to breakage from high sticking....all for about half the price of the Tournament Series. In fact the Pro Series will retail for what many of the more moderately priced import blanks do. The blanks will be produced in all popular spinning/casting lengths and powers and will be finished in CTS stunning Metallic Black (Gloss Black with pearl highlights...it's unbelievable in the sun).

Kepp an eye out, at the end of this month we'll be introducing a new and improved website, and all of the pricing and availability for The Pro Series. They should be ready for sale in 30-45 days.

Best Regards,

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

Andy
The lack of scrim will not translate into better crush resistance. It will translate into much poorer crush resistance and poor hoop strength, which will translate into a much more flimsy rod with very poor impact resistance and quite damage prone. If you think otherwise -- this I gotta see.
Ralph

Ralph;
It would make sense to me that CTS would have done testing on this before they put their reputation on the line with a product that would or could shut them down. Stephen Pratt is an engineer dealing exclusively in these types of materials and products. The proof of his credentials are in the thousands of blanks his firm has produced. Of which to date I have heard nothing bad about. The same of which I cannot say for allot of other top of the line bank manufacturers. So my question to you is. What are your credentials? That allow you to make such a bold " for matter of fact statement" on the Subject. How many years of blank manufacturing do you have under your belt. That would negate the findings of CTS.

Does anyone know of the best brand of Microwave Popcorn to buy in the large bags. I will need a good supply to keep me properly fed as this thread develops!! Abita Beer from the Micro Brewery next door will keep me properly lubricated.

Gon Fishn

I'm not an engineer and I know NOTHING about scrim, etc but the CTS blanks that I have built on (I assume with no scrim) are surprisingly light and crisp (I would compare them with any top of the line blank in the industry) and pretty darn tough. I have only seen one post concerning a broken blank and that was one that was knowingly purchased as a blem.. They have been making blanks, including heavy salt ones for some time and I would think that if there was a strength issue, that it would have come to light by now.


Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2006 01:41PM by Mike Barkley.

Ralph...I am going to chastize you for this like you have me so many times (all in good fun of course) you're not reading my post thoroughly. Go back and check the details

OF COURSE a blank built with NOTHING to provide hoop strength will fold up like a cheap suit under the lightest load.

However, in all CTS blanks, the scrim is REPLACED by a carbon helical core (similiar in nature to your old buddy Dick Kantner's design at GUSA but not nearly as heavy). It's a much lighter more efficient way of achieving hoop strength in a blank than fiberglass scrim as I am sure you will agree.

Ralph, You saw the CTS Tournamenet series blanks in Charlotte, in fact on Sunday you were privy to a conversation I had with an individual in my booth about scrim not being the ideal way of achieving hoop strength for a number of reasons...and you nodded your head and agreed!

On Friday during setup, Tom Kirkman and I watched Stephen take a CTS Tournament Series 7' fast action spinning blank and almost bend the tip of the rod back on itself. I remember Tom squinting his eyes expecting the blank to explode any second....when it didn't he looked at me and said "I can't believe that blank didn't snap.....but I guess Stephen knows how much abuse his blanks will take"


Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

Ralph...I am going to chastize you for this like you have me so many times (all in good fun of course) you're not reading my post thoroughly. Go back and check the details

OF COURSE a blank built with NOTHING to provide hoop strength will fold up like a cheap suit under the lightest load.

However, in all CTS blanks, the scrim is REPLACED by a carbon helical core (similiar in nature to your old buddy Dick Kantner's design at GUSA but not nearly as heavy). It's a much lighter more efficient way of achieving hoop strength in a blank than fiberglass scrim as I am sure you will agree.

Ralph, You saw the CTS Tournamenet series blanks in Charlotte, in fact on Sunday you were privy to a conversation I had with an individual in my booth about scrim not being the ideal way of achieving hoop strength for a number of reasons...and you nodded your head and agreed!

On Friday during setup, Tom Kirkman and I watched Stephen take a CTS Tournament Series 7' fast action spinning blank and almost bend the tip of the rod back on itself. I remember Tom squinting his eyes expecting the blank to explode any second....when it didn't he looked at me and said "I can't believe that blank didn't snap.....but I guess Stephen knows how much abuse his blanks will take"


Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

Ralph,

You already know what I'm about to say here - the switch or light just hasn't come on to remind you, yet.

If you angle the graphite prepeg far enough as you roll it around the mandrel, it begins to perform the same function as the former radial wrapped or woven glass scrim did. Of course, it also means that you lose some efficiency as now your graphite fibers are not in perfect linear alignment. So you won't get the maximum stiffess for the amount of material you have in the rod. But... rods made with glass scrim get the extra weight from the glass without any added stiffness.

If you figure out just how much of an angle to use on the graphite prepeg, and can dial in the perfect match of having enough angle to provide sufficient hoop strength but not so much as to lose a good combination of stiffness for the weight involved, you can possibly attain the same stiffness for the same weight (or possibly less) than the standard linear graphite plus glass scrim design.

I'm guessing this is somewhat along the lines of what CTS is doing.

...............



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2006 01:55PM by Tom Kirkman.

Tom, I don't believe you're description is accurate either. The helical core that provides the hoop strength is a COMPLETELY seperate and independent entity from the 100% graphite pre-preg that actually makes up the blank. A thin flat ribbon is first wound up the blank to provide the necessary hoop strength without the expense of the added weight of heavy glass coated in resin. THEN, 100% carbon is laid up over the top of that (tip to butt) to produce the blank. This pre-preg carbon is laid up 100% straight from tip to butt with no deviation in angle, so there is no loss of efficiency, no loss of stiffness, the only loss is about 15%-20% of the weight caused by the glass scrim and the excess resin required to fill it. Here is quote regarding that subject from the CTS website:

"Fiber alignment along the length of any blank is critical. Even the smallest deviation in fiber alignment from the axis of load will greatly reduce the strength of the blank.
All CTS blanks are designed and produced to ensure all fiber is aligned as near perfect as can be with the load."

You can see the helical material here and read more about why this construction is more efficient.....[www.ctsfishing.com]
Those of you who visited the CTS booth in Charlotte actually saw the helical material as Stephen had pieces of it on display in his booth.

In adition here is a picture of a 6' light power fast action Tournamnet Series baitcast blank blank that weighs in dead on at 1.06oz.
ttp://www.rodbuilding.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/3098/cat/506/page/1

Don't misunderstand me, this technology is not new, nor revolutionary, but it has never been offered before in a blank that will retail for less than $75.00

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

Ooops...here:


[www.rodbuilding.org]

Better than I thought - Back to the store for Heinekins!

Gon Fishn

Bill, the Orville Redenbaucher without the butter or salt is pretty good with a Wachusett IPA, a laptop, and a 400 thread weave that simulates a decal. lol.

Andy, set that Tournament white 7'6" aside for me please, I can wait. I'd like to get one or two of those scrimless blanks also, and put in an order for anything else you might have up your sleve in the next thirty days.

Okay, in that case the blank still utilizes actual scrim, separate from the power fibers, just not glass scrim. Loomis has made rods with an all graphite scrim for many years. You just can't lay the graphite scrim material in at a full 90 degrees as it won't take the same sharp bend that glass is happy to. It has to be laid in or wound at some off-angle.

If this is the case, you still have scrim, just graphite instead of glass. Of course, that means less overall weight but same job gets done.
...........

I suppose you could call it scrim, but it's not a bi-directional WOVEN material like traditional scrim which is what most folks use. ...although it performs the same function as a traditional scrim. The helical material is composed of all longutudinal fibers, which is much stronger (up to 40% in some cases) than a traditional woven material is. I think it's important to differentiate between a woven scrim and a non-woven all carbon helical layup. A woven scrim of any material will stil be heavier than a helical scrim because of the extra fibers in the weave and because it requires more resin to wet out the weave (how much dependson how open the weave is).




Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products

???? Straight? Light? Strong?' Fast?. bend it like an ugly stick and it doesn't break? Good qualities for a builder unless these blanks lack sensitivity and a warranty.

Isn't that the same layup as a GUSA DHX Dual Helix?

Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

I don't really care how they do it but they build great blanks. I have built 6 or 7 to date and I don't have a bad word to say about them. The only one that ended up in two pieces was when the the owner accidentally threw his lure into a River Gum. As he was trying to flick it clear he stepped backwards onto a round shapped strick. The stick moved under his foot and he thought it was a brown snake. He dropped the rod and ended up stepping on it. I don't think this one would be covered by warrantly. What do yu think Steven/Andy? LOL.

Tom, I just did some research on this....including discussing it with Stephen regarding the scrim, and he informed me that the traditional definition of a scrim is a light LOOSELY WOVEN backing that is applied at the same time as the pre-preg. Whereas the helical core is a structure manf. independemtly in and of itself that is neither woven or loose, it is actually manf from the same longitudinal fibers the power fibers are made of. So yes it is performing the same purpose as a traditional scrim (hoop strength), but can't really be considered the same as a scrim, because it's not woven , and is a structure in and of itself made independently of the pre-preg flag. We spoke extensively about the layup Loomis was using and he assures me this is completely different from what they did with their matte carbon scrim blanks including the GLX product.

Michael, Sensitivity is a function of stiffenss and weight....lighter and stiffer = more sensitive, so yes the CTS is among the most sensitive, because they are among the lightes of blanks.
All CTS blanks come with a 6 year manf. warranty, and money back guarantee of satisfcation from Lamar.

Like I said the exciting things about these blanks is not the carbon helical layup...it's the fact you're going to be able to get a blank with a 100% carbon blank with a helical layup for less than $75.00 in some cases much less.

Best Regards,

Andy Dear

Mark,
No, GUSA uses a DUAL helical layup. The CTS is only a single helical and the layup is a different design. The GUSA blanks are very nice, but quite overbuilt in the smaller blanks. With the DUAL helix....that sort of adds the weight back into the blank they took out when they removed the scrim. Dick Kantner (Founder of GUSA) is a friend of mine, and he always used to tell me " You can run over our blanks with a Ford Bronco and it won't break" Well that's great for the guy who runs over his blanks with a truck, but they don't need to be that strong at the expense of adding excess weight back into the blank.

The GUSA DHX 60L ultralight casting blank weighs almost a 1/2oz. more than the comparable CTS I posted a pic of on the photopage. I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but when both blanks are under 2 oz. it is measurable.

Best Regards,

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing PRoducts

Mark,
No, GUSA uses a DUAL helical layup. The CTS is only a single helical and the layup is a different design. The GUSA blanks are very nice, but quite overbuilt in the smaller blanks. With the DUAL helix....that sort of adds the weight back into the blank they took out when they removed the scrim. Dick Kantner (Founder of GUSA) is a friend of mine, and he always used to tell me " You can run over our blanks with a Ford Bronco and it won't break" Well that's great for the guy who runs over his blanks with a truck, but they don't need to be that strong at the expense of adding excess weight back into the blank.

The GUSA DHX 60L ultralight casting blank weighs almost a 1/2oz. more than the comparable CTS I posted a pic of on the photopage. I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but when both blanks are under 2 oz. it is measurable.

Best Regards,

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing PRoducts