There is an area on the Matrix blanks where the scrim ends (unevenly) and makes the transition to the upper blank. Would you do a simple solid thread wrap over this area (about 1" to 1.5") to hide the transition or leave it as is? Just a cosmetic issue but I thought I'd see what you guys think.

Thanks,
David

This transition seems to stand out more when you look at the bare blank...after I add the guides and wraps, it really isn't as noticable. It sure makes you look at it when the blank is bare though...I dont think it will be as big of an issue to you once the guides are on and guide wraps done. After the guides and wraps are done if it still bothers you, you could marble a 1" band with some emerald greens and darker greens. A marbled area might blend better and look more artistic than an out of place looking thread wrap. A feather inlay would really make it look sweet.

I've not built on any of their blanks. But a friend of mine has built many, that I have looked at. Of the ones I've looked at He has never done anything to hide the transition point.
IMO; it gives the rod a unique appearance and helps it to stand out. When a customer asks about it, gives you am opportunity to explain the uniqueness of the blank along with it's benefits

Steve,
I will concede that the blanks are unique but what are the benefits? I can not see any.

American Matrix© Series
Fuses the beauty of a woven twill graphite material with the traditional intermediate modulus blank design. The result is a cutting edge blank and the first of its kind to be offered to rod builders. The “Matrix” material adds power and sensitivity to the butt section without inhibiting the performance of the unidirectional tip section. Presented in an emerald green with matching handles and reel seat inserts, this series brings trend setting to a whole new level.

I guess that I am by nature skeptical and find some of that hard to believe. The effective modulus (stiffness) of carbon fiber drops very rapidly when it is at an angle other than straight up the blank. This means that more material must be used to get the same power which naturally means more weight and lower sensitivity unless there is something about it that I do not understand.

Emory:
You may be entirely correct. What I posted is what I copied and pasted from American Tackles own web sight. I personally have not tested their theories. I can say that by using the twill pattern laying the fibers at an angle to the “unidirectional tip section” should increase hoop strength just like in the CTS blanks

Steve,
Yes, you are right it will increase the hoop strength in the area where the fibers are at an angle to the blank but not by very much and I think that there are better ways to get increased hoop strength. Frankly, I think that this is something to distinguish the blanks from others from a marketing standpoint.
If you are interested I can give you the web site of a manufacturer of carbon fiber that has some data that will show you exactly what the effect is of putting the fiber at an angle. In fact, there is a graph that shows effective modulus versus angle and it is surprising how fast the modulus drops as a function of the angle.

Yes Emory I would love to look at that site. You may be right again. May simple be affective marketing, and that can be conitued by David if he chooses.

Emory,

I agree with you, it's surely just marketing.

I do like the blanks, though, and use them quite a bit.

Really pretty with the right threads/inlays.....That green/black combination is very striking.

For a mid to lower level price pont, the blanks are very fishable.

Good Luck!

Buddy Sanders

Steve,
Go to the Advanced Composites web site [advancedcomposites.com/technology]. When you get there scroll down about two pages and you will find several graphs two of which will show you the modulus and strength versus angle for glass and carbon fiber. If you look carefully at the graphs you will see that the the modulus drops off dramatically with angle.

Emory:
Thank you . I will take a look.
Some thing I've been thinking about since our last post.
Would it not make since that American Tackle would have done their own testing before production.
As competitive as this business is, I don't see them marketing an inferior product. to be there top of the line blank.

Emory:
I looked at the charts and see what you are talking about. The strength being less as the material is angled from a strait axis.
The one thing the charts did not cover however. Is whether the materials become weaker or stronger when you have fibers that are running straight backed up by fibers at an angle.
As is the case with the Matrix blanks. Would be interesting to see American Tackle’s results on their testing.
It is also what CTS claims makes their blanks stronger.

Steve,

I like the Matrix blanks, but they definately aren't the top of the Amtack line. They are well below the other in cost and are their bottom priced graphite blank/ I agree with Emory that it is primarily marketing. I don't think that they are constructed like the CTS blanks

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Mike:
thanks for the info. Have never used one of their blanks. I thought that because the Matrix banner occupied the predominant spot on their website that I was their signature product ,which is normally a companies top product

IMO, it's a very good blank at a good price.

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Steve,
Every other layer in almost all blanks is called scrim and is composed of fibers, usually fiberglas, that are at an angle to the blank. The fibers in the scrim are there and at an angle mainly to give the blank hoop strength or strength against torque and shear. Normally fiberglass is used because fiberglass has about 4 times the toughness of graphite. A significant number of the fibers in the scrim that are there for hoop strength run almost directly around the blank or at 90 degrees to the blank. Just as the strength and modulus of the fibers that run up the blank drop as the angle to the blank increases the same thing happens to fibers that are there for hoop strength if they are not close to 90 degrees or around the blank.
Graphite can be used as scrim, in fact several blank manufacturers use graphite scrim. Others just use it in the scrim in the butt section of the blank. This is not really all that new or unique. Because the graphite is lighter graphite scrim results in a blank that is lighter and more sensitive particularly when used toward the tip of the blank. It makes much less difference when in the butt section because the effect of weight has exponentially more effect the closer it is to the tip. When they do use graphite they use lower modulus graphite because of the toughness issue, as modulus goes up toughness goes down. A blank with graphite scrim will be more fragile. Graphite also has the nasty characteristic of not tolerating being bent around a small diameter or the tip end of a mandrel particularly a small diameter mandrel.
The scrim is not usually on the surface because then the fibers that are contributing to the blanks stiffness, the fibers that run straight up the rod, are then naturally under the scrim and the stiffness or power being contributed by the layers drops off at the 4th power as it gets farther from the surface of the blank.
In my judgment there is nothing that is fundamentally wrong with what is being done with the Matrix blanks but I also do not see any particular advantage to it that would justify claims like "cutting edge" and "increasing power and sensitivity".
I hope that answers your question.

Emory :
thanks for the education. I've learned allot from this post and others in which you have given input.
So effectively put. Is what you are saying is that American Tackle is guilty of false advertising or flat out lying?

Steve,
No, I would not put it that strongly. I think that all advertising should be looked at with a good deal of skepticism and I do not think that American Tackle's advertising is much different than most other advertising. I think that designing a blank involves a whole series of trade offs which creates many opportunities for creative add copy writers to put a spin on the characteristics of the product being advertised. I think that most advertising, regardless of the product being advertised, tends to exaggerate the positive characteristics of a product and down play or ignore the negative characteristics. But I think that we as custom rod builders, in order to do justice to our customers and give our customers the most value for the dollar, have a responsibility to educate ourselves so that we can see through most of the advertising @#$%&.

Steve,
The Matrix construction is not even remotely close to the CTS construction, nor the claims they make regarding hoop strength, fiber angle etc. Suffice it to say that the matrix twill carbon is strictly cosmetic, and offers no "real" benefit in terms of performance, other than it looks cool. I can tell you this because I was privy to the information regarding, and witnessed first hand on a number of occasions, the construction of the ORIGINAL carbon twill blanks made here in the USA before Amtak was involved with these blanks. Later they were OEM'd for Amtak and a few other folks as well. Twill blanks tend to be marketedly heavier than even traditional scrim based layups like Emory describes, And WAY heavier than the CTS helical layup. It's a cool looking blank, but that's about it. I sold a ton of twill Musky Blanks last year, that were nice blanks, but very very heavy...at least 2oz heavier than a comparable CTS or St. Croix.

If you try and compare the Amtak Matrix to the CTS or the GUSA (which uses a remotely similiar construction as the CTS) you're not only not comparing apples to apples, your not even comparing fruit to fruit. What CTS claims is that the carbon helical core coupled with a complete lack of scrim is what accounts for a stronger lighter blank. Please contact me directly for the exact details regarding your comparison.


Best Regards,

Andy Dear
Lamar Fishing Products