So today I get the Bass Pro flier of the week and I see a reasonably decent line of rods being offered on sale for $29.99 each. Now I can barely purchase the same reel seat and cork grip for that same amount of money, forget about the blank, the guides, thread, finish/epoxy, tip top, decals, $hipping, and won't even discount my efforts at 15 cents/ hour, and yet somehow they must be turning a profit. I fully realize purchasing in volume can bring larger discounts but it's though they are pulling a rabbit from a hat. My friends think I'm nuts when I account for the materials cost alone in a rod compared to what they can get like this. It must be that new fuzzy math which I can't get my head around : )

First of all, you have to consider the quality of the components. Are these, in fact, the same ones you're buying? Most likely not. Take a close look at the overall fit and finish of the rod. Does it really compare to what you're doing?

Granted, it's still a decent rod and is sure to get the job done for folks that aren't extremely particular about their tackle. And the folks that buy $29 rods probably aren't in the market you want to go after anyway.

Beyond all that, keep in mind that rods made overseas cost only a few dollars to make. And, a container with tens of thousands of rods in it only costs $3600 to bring over here. So shipping amounts to pennies per rod. No doubt they're getting good discounts on their parts, paying next to nothing for labor, getting shipping done very cheaply, etc. But when you come right down to it, how do these rods really compare to your own custom rods?

I can assure you that for every 100 guys who would buy one of these rods, there is at least one that would rather have one of yours, even if the price is many times greater.

...............

Those cheap items are to get you into the store. While you are at it, might as well get a new reel to go with that new rod. How about some line and lures. You will need a new tackle box and if you are short of cash...no problem, put it all on their credit card.

Sheepishly I'll admit I have a rod similar to what you describe - that I bought off the shelf. It's not one of the rods you're describing, but one that came from a different big box store. I was in there looking for something for the boat when I came across this rod among the many in racks. I looked at it, and knew there was no freaking way I could build the same rod for what the retail price was - the parts alone would have cost me 2x-3x more.

Like Tom said, it's still a decent rod and is sure to get the job done. So I went through ALL the rods of the same model and picked all the rods that were spined correctly. Next I looked at guides and their alignment, and that eliminated a few more. I was down to three to pick from. I looked at these and picked the rod with the best cork, the reel seats were aligned ok. So I paid $59 for a rid that would have cost me closer to $200 in parts alone.

Lou

Ellis, you're right, I didn't even consider this as being a loss leader but I'm sure that's considered in the overall picture. Tom, I'm not equating a custom rod with these but what I'm alluding to is how a profit can be made here on their part, considering this is less than half my material costs and somebody has to put the thing together and ship it more than twice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2006 12:47PM by Rob Grider.

The deals that really impress me at BPS are the $70-100 rods that have very nice components on them. If I attempted to build those rods, it would cost me another $20 than what they're charging.

And, while the rod I build is a much better rod, the average fisherman is not going to notice enough difference in the two to pay me twice as much.

Consequently, I've recently been building more high-end rods. I've gone to using more titanium guides, etc. My thought is this: If I'm aiming for such a small portion of the fishing rod market, I want to put something in the buyers' hands that really, really impresses them. I also want to put something in their hands that they simply cannot get anywhere, except from me (or another rod builder).

Andrew, you're right. Now some $29.95 rods look like crap and you can see the cost cutting here but this particular line of blanks I'm referring to have nice real seats in them, as nice as the St. Croix or Fuji handle kits that I buy for around $30 alone. Oh well, I'm just glad they haven't found a way to build/sell spectacles yet. : )

Yes, these rods are assembled very sloppily. But some, like my BPS Extreme ($49.99 with a $30 Pflueger reel on it!), is built on a very, very nice blank. I haven't found a reasonably priced spinning blank that is as stiff and light as this. If BPS would just buy these blanks and leave them alone, they could market the blanks themselves for $49.99 and they would compare favorably with everything else out there. Clearly, they must be able to get these blanks for a few dollars each. Why must I pay 100 times more than that to get a similar blank? I would expect to pay 4-10 times more, but not 100 times more. It just does not seem to add up.

There is a line of BPS Muskie rods which someone claimed are teh best value on Earth, and as a result l literally hundreds of guys from a couple of websites went out and bought them for gifts, for themselves, spares, etc. $20 each. How can tehy go wrong with a Lep Stick?

After they fish them, they post reports such as "It's the best deal on Earth, the best rod every......how can I get the handle longer? Why is the grip so short? It's too stiff" lol.

I am of the opinion of "you can't compete on price so why worry about it". And I do just that...I don't worry about it. To me compairing a good custom to a Bass Pro, Cabela's, Wal-Mart, etc. type rod is like apples to oranges. We KNOW our stuff is better so be proud of that fact and charge what you should for your work. I own a restaurant and I have a small rod display rack up by the front cash register. Some of the rods there are for sale, but most are personal rods or customer rods. Some of them, for sale or not, have price tags hanging from them with brief descriptions of components used. The vast majority of people that look at them make some comment about the high price, but that doesn't hurt my feelings as I understand their perspective. But it only takes one person that places a good order to justify my efforts. Not everyone wants to pay for a custom rod and that's ok by me.

Every now & then I pick up a catalog that has good 'hand-made' rods in it...like Melton's. I look at their descriptions and the pictures of the rods & wraps they show. I then sit down and make a components list and what I would charge for such a rod. You'd be suprised how close both our prices are. Sometimes one is higher and I go figure on another rod and the other one of us is a bit higher...it's scary. The thing is that it is harder to get away with 'cheap' components on the bigger saltwater rods like Melton's sells. When components are the same the prices between a catalog store and a custom builder are also much the same.

Jay

As an "amateur" rod builder (I build them only for myself, and for friends and family members, who pay only for the components), I'll put in my two cents...

I agree that most fishermen would not appreciate the difference between a decent factory rod and a good custom rod. Or if they did notice a difference, they could not justify the extra expense involved in obtaining a custom. I know that while my wife is OK with me spending $150-$200 in components to build a nice surf rod, I do not think that she would be OK if I was buying from another custom rodbuilder, and the price was double that. And I don't think I'd want to spend double, either: I think I'd rather have two or three factory rods, that I could use in different situations, than one custom rod built for me. That doesn't mean that I'm a bad person, or a jerk; it just means that I'm not among the people who would appreciate, and be willing to pay for, the services of a custom rodbuilder. And that's why I got into doing it myself: so that I could achieve the same results (or, more accurately, a poor-man's version of the same results) from the fruits of my (free) labor.

The best analogy that I can think of is clothing. Just about all of us wear factory-built clothing (I want to say everyone on this board, but I don't want to be presumptuous), and for us it works fine. But even though I've never had a single tailored garment, I am sure that there is absolutely no comparison between a shirt or a suit built especially for you by a skilled tailor, and something that you buy off the rack. This is true regardless of how nice the factory-made suit is, or how much you pay for it.

If you talk to a tailor, you'll find that they don't really consider factory-made clothing competition, because what they provide is so different -- it's more of a service than a product -- that to compare one to the other is unfair. And I think that custom rodbuilders should have the same attitude, that a fisherman who is obsessed with the bottom line should go to Mega-Lo-Mart and buy the discount special. But despite that, there will always be those who appreciate having a fine instrument, and they will go to custom rodbuilders.

I have worked in retail tackle...retail management and am now the onsite rep for a major vendor supplier for a(the biggest) retailer in America. I build rods as a hobby and as gifts for friends etc.

The trick is don't compete for market share with someone who can buy the rod for pennies. There will never be enough volume in custom rod building to compete based on price. The major suppliers of rod building supplies still don't sell enough volume to get the components and compete based on price. This I think is the irony of company's in small towns that have been "run out of business" by a major retailer moving in. For years Bob & Sally had to pay your price for "X" "Y" or "Z" but now that Super Mart is here they can get 25% cheaper.......But Bubba custom lawn furniture who makes handmade this and that stays around.

My point is if you can make unique products that have a high degree of craftsmanship you have a good chance of finding people who will want your products. But if you try to sell to the avg Joe the avg rod you will lose out every time. This is why their are very few small tackle shops that don't have a special niche...offering something extra..bait..guide services..boat rentals etc.

Sell your service & knowledge,the ablity to be flexible, use your unique skills as an artisan. Things you can't get at bass pro or super mart.

It never ceases to amaze me that the folks who gripe about spending $300.00 on a custom fishing rod, have no problem whatsoever spending $400.00 bucks on a new driver from some infomercial in trying to "buy a golf game."

David, I thought of that analogy when I wrote my post/rant...

There is a superb custom golf-club operation near my house (George Izett), and it's actually cheaper to go to Izett and have clubs fitted to your swing than to go to a big-box sporting goods store and buy the hot new thing from one of the big manufactuers. I talked to a guy at Izett a few years ago, and he was not worried at all about the future of the business: he knew that there would always be a small percentage of the golfing population who would recognize the value they offer. As it is with golfing equipment, it is with custom rods...

I think it is a great time to get into custom rods, actually. Go into a big-box store and ask a simple question; the one I like is whether the rod will take a specified sinker -- and see what kind of reaction you get. The 16-year old kid ain't gonna know what the heck you're talking about. It's one thing to be inexpensive, but where's the value in spending $30 or $50 for something that doesn't do what you want it to? To my way of thinking, value is in getting exactly what you want at a fair price. And, I firmly believe, you get better value from a custom rodmaker who knows what you want than from any big-box store. Sell your knowledge and your skills, I say....

End of rant #25,154...

"They" may be able to build them cheaper than "us" but I really think that "we" may be influencing "them". I just went & grabbed my Cabelas Master Fishing catalog and quickly counted about 43 pages devoted to nothing but rods. Anybody notice the product descriptions in the catalogs these days...... the emphasis on the exact components used, and the appearance of such things as split grips (unheard of in the catalogs until recently). And lo and behold, the terms "power" and "action" are being used in the catalogs now; sometimes even correctly. The Corporate guys aren't getting these ideas out of the blue. Who knows, maybe they monitor Rodbuilding.org.

Have you priced a Bass Boat lately??? Or a pick-up truck to pull it? Fishermen are just like other hobbyists. They will pay for anything that hits their hot button. You've just got to find the hot button.

how much does a bass boat cost? the biggest expense as far as a day fishing has to be offshore fishing. with teh price of gas, boat slip, bait, $600 reels, oops, I forgot, a matched set of a dozen $600 reels, for a guy to spend $150 on a rod is just hilarious. I acually rather NOT build them a rod just so I can laugh at their stupidtiy, especially when tehy are not satisfied with teh rods they have. granted, most of them ARE happy with teh rods they have.....most Penn rods are nicely color coordinated to Penn Internationals.

Well stated Billy. I always joke that I fish the Mississippi from a 32 year old beat up jon boat that bristles with custom rods - I know which one catches the fish and which catches many of the other anglers! A custom rod is an investment in the exact way a person plans to fish - and it will catch them more fish dollar for dollar than any fancy boat will.

The masses can have their blue-light specials - those who appreciate a well balanced, attractive, tool for catching more fish will gravitate towards custom rods - and for me one of the greatest joys is in catching or having one of my customs catch for their owners - a dandy fish or two in the exact way they were designed to be used... now if I could just figure out how to build reels?!! Chuck Ungs