I have built a number of rods using the new matrix or texalium handle material but the previous blanks that I have used it on had very stiff butt sections so I did not notice the problem that I noticed on several recent rods that flexed a little down in the butt section and I wonder if anyone else has had this problem or is bothered by it.
The problem is the graphite tube because of its large diameter does not flex but many blanks, even fairly powerful ones, will flex some all of the way down to the handle. The result is that you can feel a slight movement between the handle and the reel seat that I find very annoying. And I do not think that there is anything that can be done about it, at least nothing that I can think of. Any ideas anyone?

Felt the same thing Emory, haven't noticed so much on the heavy stuff, but the steelhead rods sure are noticeable. We may need to design something like the japanese bass rods to stop it.

I am in the process as I write this email trying to battle that problem. Mine however, is slightly different in that one of my arbors slipped down the blank while putting the graphite handle on. I did not notice until everything was set up. But....so I had some flex between the handle and reel seat (Rainshadow DR 1147). I was able to flex it just enough that I could blow a bunch of that gap filler stuff from Home depot in (at this point in time that was about 1/2 and hour ago). I am hoping that it sets up fairly hard like it does in its normal application. Not sure if that is a solution to your problem or mine but hopefully. You may be able to blow this stuff into the tube (since it expands greatly after a few minutes ) and than slip your reel seat into place. As things set up it should expand to make a even connection between the tube and your reel seat. It is very light weight stuff and I would imagine that it will not hamper the sentestivity aspect that these handle are trying to achieve. At least those are my thoughts but would love to hear from the ones with much more experince than I.
Thanks, Aaron

I have built a lot of rods with graphite handles, and have not noticed this at all. a couple of those rods I've have fished for over 15 years. After your post I checked the one's I still have in my shop. Purposely over taxing them to the point of being afraid I might break them. I did not notice any of the flexing you are talking about. One of them creaked the first time I bent it ,but that was all. The flex you are experiencing might be caused by the arbors you are using. They themselves might be what is flexing. You could put a spacer in the center of the handle tubing. That should help to limit any flexing your are getting.

The spacers are not the problem. I typically use about 5 and epoxy one at each end of the graphite tube.
I think that the source of the problem is this: the power of a blank or a tube, in this case a graphite tube, goes up at the 4th power of its diameter. If you double the diameter the power goes up 16 times. So the tube is very rigid, it does not flex. However, the blank is on the order of half the diameter of the graphite handle so it is flexing a little.

Steve,
If you position your hand so that it is half on the reel seat and half on the graphite handle and then shake the rod good I think that you will notice what I am referring to.

It may not be a problem for rods that will be used as boat rods which is probably where this material makes the most sense but for rods that will be cast you will be able to feel it every time that you cast unless it is a very powerful rod.

Emory,
I haven't used the matrix or any other tube type grips, at least so far, but I have before experienced a similar feel in ice rods and small diameter, whippy lights when using cork or wood grips (and to a lesser extent, even EVA). On these, I have since been using an oversleeve of blank material up to the forward part of the reel seat just to stiffen the whole mess. On larger rods that flex in the area of these rigid grips where you have to rely on arbors instead of a constant fit, perhaps doing something similar with titanium or good grade aluminum tubing might be in order? Doesn't have to be full length, say maybe from 1/2 the foregrip if any to just a couple of inches into the rear grip. Just enough to stiffen the transition. I really can't see breakage being much of a concern in the grip area.

Not sure who I think I am offering advice to you, but just a couple of thoughts.

I have recently stopped butted the graphite directly against the reelseat with the black graphite tube, I've been putting a narrow black EVA ring in between, not because of the above problem, I've been just trying to leave nicer joints and to try to make edges little less abrupt and round the shapes a little for asthetic reasons.

Emory:
I've done what you suggested with rods from 7' med.- though 7'.5' -8' med -to 8' med and heavy rods. and still do not notice what you are talking about. All of these are bass rods. Maybe something that is more noticeable on longer rods then what I have here?

Aaron:
I always glue my arbors to the blank and up to the reel seat first and let them harden, then slip my tubing up from the butt of the blank. As I approach each arbor I put some epoxy on the inside of the tube and the face of arbor, and a little on the top edge or the arbor. the only one a cannot put epoxy on the top edge of is the arbor against the reel seat. But put a little extra on the face so it will push out of the joint when I make them up together. Then put my butt cap on. Stand the rod up in the corner so the epoxy I put on the top edge will spread out to fill any gaps between tubing and arbor

Spencer,
That is probably the best solution. The blank would still flex and there would be movement between the reel seat and the handle but it would not be as apparent.

Mick,
Yes, the problem must be the same for wooden handles.
Your idea of stiffening the blank through the reel seat area will also no doubt work. The only problem is that by stiffening a section of the blank a stress point is created just in front of the stiff section. It would be just like the stress point that is created just in front of a ferrule. I guess though because it is so close to the butt of the blank it is probably not a problem with most blanks. It would also add a little weight but not that much and the added weight would again be low in the rod where it has less effect.

Thanks

Emory,
It was late so I wasn't as clear as I could have been. I was thinking of not so much an oversleeve on the blank itself, but an undersleeve at the joint, not touching the blank. Something that would marry the grip to the reel seat without flex but still allow the blank to flex within it.

Mick,
You mean some sort of stiff piece that the reel seat and the end of the graphite handle fit over and holds them rigidly together but that has space between it and the blank so that it allows the blank to flex underneath. The blank would still flex but you would not feel it and there would not be a stiff spot created in the blank. The point where the handle/reel seat moved relative to each other would be moved to in front of the reel seat where you would not feel it. That is a great idea, you're a genius. The ID of the reel seat and the ID of the graphite tube are significantly different but that can be worked out. I am going to give it a try.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2006 09:45AM by Emory Harry.

Steve,
thank youfor the reply. I actually went through all of those steps like you outlined, except that i had brought the tube down from the top to the butt, and in the process had the closest arbor to the reel seat slip down.
I use Batson exposed trigger reel seats for these rods and the reel seat itself is a nearly perfect fit, therefore on the rods that I do not put in a cork spacer or something else between the seat and the grip, i Position that arbor very close to the reel seat to eliminate any of this flexing we are talking about.
My experiment with the gap filler foam worked extrodinalrily well, it took all of the flex out of the transition area and as far as added weight it is not noticeable. I did notice one small area where the fit was not perfect (the stuff ozzed out a little making a whiteish spot, but can be painted black to match the rest of the components).

I just gave a "good shake" to my IST1026 and 1025 with texalium handles and don't feel anything out of sorts???? 1 has three poly arbors and the other is 3 cork ring arbors. Both use blank exposed trigger reel seats with a cork bushing at the rear of the seat. Maybe the contact of the blank exposed seat eliminates the flex that might occur at the point the handle and seat join??

I to use blank exposed seats-that may be the difference. I also do what mike suggested and Emory elaborated on. I cut down the arbor to match the diameter or the reel seat on one side and the graphite on the other. That is the only arbor the does not come into contact with the blank- that may be the difference. Not sure which one is making a difference? All I know is I'm not having the flexing effect you are

I also used the blank exposed reel seats on the rods that I have problems with.

Grant,
I am pretty sure that with the IST 1025 you should be able to feel it. I am very familiar with that blank. I think that I mis-spoke before when I said shake the rod. Swing the rod so that it flexes good. Get the tip moving 25% to 30% of the rods length. If then you do not feel it then I guess I would not worry about it if I were you.

Been called many things in my time but don't recall genius being one of them. More like an errant thought from a simple mind, but hey... genius has a nice ring to it. Of course, now this means that if it doesn't work, it will be because of operator error rather than faulty design. lol

Emory:
What type and lenth of rods are your having this challenge with?

Steve,
I do not think that it is related to the length. I think that it is a function of how much the blank will flex down toward the handle. The rods that it was the most noticeable on were popping blanks, Lamiglas GP964's, that I extend out to 9 feet for Salmon casting rods. They make excellent casting rods but are not very fast action rods even after being extended.
I think that you may not have experienced the problem because you said that you were building bass rods most of which are fast action blanks that do not flex much toward the handle.

Emory:
I would agree with you except for the fact that I use popping blanks for some of my crank bait rods. However at the moment I only have one of those in my shop and it is a split handle and may not be behaving that way because the split may be relieving some of the pressure that would other wise be there on a one piece handle. I will be out of town next week, but when I get back I will be building a couple of more on popping blanks with out the split grips. If I notice what we are talking about, then I will post some info about it. Also if it happens I will be figuring out how to prevent it . So I will keep you up dated on what I find.

You know on our production rods we use the foam flex coat type arbors for these handles. we also have some dense EVA caps made for the ends that have arbors built into them. The foam arbor (we cut into 3 pieces) and we use one piece at the reel seat we leave about 3/8" sticking out from the tube and turn it down so it fits snug into the rear of the trigger seat (we also use exposed seats). We then glue the piece of the arbor exposed into the seat. We have been using this method for around 2 years and haven't had any complaints as yet.

Todd

Regards,
Todd Vivian
Mud Hole Custom Tackle

todd@mudhole.com