I need to put a coat on tonight in order to put a decal over it before putting a second coat over that. In the past I have had trouble with long stretches getting "wavy".

Threadmaster is the best. I don't own any of threadmaster..........wish I did............but you can't beat it......Maybe use a spatula. I do long sections and I find that threadmaster will level better than any.........

Big John
Rio Hondo, Texas
Blessed are those who can give without remembering and take without forgetting

Lengthwise brush strokes.

I usually start heavy in the middle and push to the ends, then work the ends back into the middle until I get things the way I want them, then I add flame evenly back and forth from end to end to heat it up and smooth it out.

DR

All of them level perfectly, none are better or worse than another.

Read the recent article in RodMaker on getting perfectly level finishes.

If you've got waves, you applied too much finish.

...........

My method is simply to leave it alone after application. This means don't touch it, don't turn it, don't start the dryer. Let it sag and even drip. Start at one end and remove the sags/drips then start over again removing the sags/drips. Turn the rod 180 and let it sit again until the sags form. Remove those. Eventually it will stop sagging...THEN you can put it in the dryer.

Jay

I found out last night, after a small mishap, that even after 40 minutes you can lightly heat it with a heat gun (set to lowest setting) or blow dryer and get it to thin back out like water! Anyway, after that little lesson, the heat gun now resides in my finish area and will be used every time! If I have too much on it will drip off when warmed... which is good since I'm still new enough to question how much is enough. ...lol The point being, the rod we finished last night was perfectly level, the butt wrap (which was the area of mishap) was perfect... you could "calibrate" a straight edge with it!

And the article Tom referred to is very good!

Marty,
You shouldn't have to do anything at all....ThreadMaster levels easier than most other resins. Just be sure that your room AND the bottles are both above 68 degrees. They don't have to be the same, just above 68. ALso, rotating by hand guides up/guides down every 2 minutes will help any resin level better.

Andy Dear
www.lamarfishing.com

Another thing is having the rod perfectly level in the dryer/turner. I use a bubble level, just lay it aginst the rod and make sure its just right before applying any finish.

ps. Andy THANK YOU!!!! the mandrel is perfect.

DR

Make sure you have good light. The only problem I have is that it is sooo clear it's hard to see if it is covered Almost like putting thick water on.
Also that article that Tom was talking about works great. I now hand turn till it is covered. Let sit a few minutes. wipe the drips off the bottom. Turn 90 degrees then wipe more if needed. Then turn the motor on.

Thick water....good one!


Andy Dear
www.lamarfishing.com

Tom said it as simple as can be said ................... waves = too much at application ..............
Try hand turning for the first 20 min , wich off hangers . I JUST got finished doing a small butt section of a 2PC spinning rod on my kitchen table , hand turned for a while and it's spinning away on my 30 RPM spinning maching right now . I'm positive to will be as smooth as glass in the AM .................. as long as it spins for a couple of hours before someone shuts it off !....................
John Dow NERBS

Got Fish ?

Bill, I can't believe you actually said "thick" LOL
Mike

Guys,

I just can't understand this need for heat on wrap finish. If the right amount of finish is applied then ok if too much remove it with a decent small flat brush and layoff carefully. Do this whilst finish is very young. Hair driers I would have thought are the last things you want whilst applying finish. Why would you want to move around air that probably contains lint and dust. Naked flames are we kidding hear. We have solvents and other flammible materials in our shops. You don't need fire risks . I have been building many years and have never ever seen the need to apply any additional heat to this very simple process. Follow the instructions maybe with a few changes learnt from experince and heck you are good to go. I suspect most probs are caused by

Applying too much finish.

Too cold a finishing room

Poor quality brush or too big in size.

Incorrectly measured finish.

Too small amounts mixed.

Waiting too long after mixing to apply finish

Working too slowly.

Working too long into the open working time of finish

Pre- heating finish before starting.

Dirty mixing containers

Dirty tools and hands

Poor preperation


All the above are easy to aviod.

regards

mike o.

Mike
I am still playing with it but I am going the other way. That is why I said thick. Then trying Toms way of hand turning it's a new learning experence.

Bill,

I half remember Toms way of hand rotating the rod whilst high building. It obviously works for him. I think I use a similar method. My rod is supported on my wrapping jig and rotated by hand very slowly whilst I apply the finish. When done the rod is rotated by hand and the speed varied to suit the way the finish is forming. If I get a bit of a sag then I rotate the rod accordingly to smooth it out. When all is level again I go back to slow constant speed. About 3 to 6 RPM. I do this boring task for at least 20 minutes. After that I rotate through 180 degrees every one minute or maybe two minute intervals. This goes on for about one hour. I read a good book. During this set up time if I spot a hair or lint I can still lift it out of the finish with a sewing needle. After that it's best to leave well alone.

Most of us on the forum are driven to build world class rods, but truth is absolute perfection is nigh on impossible irrespective of how much money a customer might be prepared to pay and how much skill and time we put in. Of course each and everyone one of us will have a diffrent perception of what is perfection.
One of my biggest frustrations is reading about other builders frustrations when high building wraps. I feel for them but at the same time after a reasonable bit of practice and following decent advice there should rarely ever be any problems. I like very freshly mixed finishes. I don't hang around very long after mixing. I don't even let all or even most of the bubbles pop. I never ever pour the mix onto aluminium foil. I don't know how clean it is for a start. If I am feeling very motivated I will use three seperate mixes to do a single fly rod that has only 12 warps to do. If a bit lazy two mixes. I won't try and push a thickening /curing mix around the wraps. Because of experience I have confidence and with confidence comes speed and speed is I feel very important tp producing a good level finish. The real skill was in the chemist who designed these modern mixes. All we have to do is slap it on and follow a few simple guidlines /rules.
Throw away your hair driers Guys/Gals and your alchol lamps and lighters too. You seriuosly just don't need them.

Mike O.

Mike
Unlike you I don't like to " fiddle " with it. Butt Wraps. Guides are no problem at all. They are so small and area . But the butt wrap I was loading them up on a fast turner then just leaving them alone. The drips would usually be pulled up onto the wrap and cause waves and lumps. So I slowed it down. Slow is a pain to get it well covered.
Now I am playing with putting it on hand turning. Or the fast turning.I load it up as I turn. Hard to see coverage with Thread master. Water clear. Got to use the light to make sure.
After covered, I turn the guides up Wait a little, pull off any drips. Then turn guides down. Wait pull any drips. Then if it looks pretty good, turn on a slow turner. One of these days I'll put a rheostat on for speed control ??

This is when I get myself in trouble !! I look at it and well, " if I put a little more on, maybe it will look better ?? " No good, then I start to add tooooo much. Got to learn that if I add any, stop the turning and look for drips --- or walk away !!!!?????

Bill,

You are a real honest Guy enjoyed your post.. Butt wraps I will agree need more work than guides wraps but the principle of working quickly still holds. But it is still relative and of course I am guessing that you mix a specific batch for your butt warp and this will give you lots of open working time. It could work against you in that you can fiddle with it and it will sag easier if you apply too much. But young mixes level better capital B.

Ok light is very important when finishing. I finish in a room that is 10 x 7 feet and has two 200 watt light bulbs in it. I only work in day light to so my room which is south facing is flooded with light. I really think your problem is that you are applying too much finish. You can only work through this by trial and error. OK working this through from the start this is my method but others will do it differently no doubt and I am not saying my way is the only way.

Starting with the rod supprted in my jig. I apply finish to each end of the wraps first. I overlap onto the blank by one eigth of an inch. I then apply with a flat brush blobs of finish to the wrap and move the finish slowly around the threads by slowly rotating the blank and gently brushing out. I try hard not to introduce bubbles whilst doing this. If I do I ignore them for now, OK I carry on until all the thread has a coat of finish that is just above the level of the thread. At this point my finish will be all wavey. I then lay off horizontally by holding the brush right at the end of the handle opposite the hairy end.. I angle the brush at approx 45 degrees to the wrap and starting at the LHE move the brush all the way to the RHE. Only the weight of the brush is applied and the tip.. After each pass I rotate the blank a little and work all the way round 360 degress. It is usually necassary to go around again. OK what we probably will have now is too much finish at the RHE. but it won't normally be overly too much. I then use shorter brush strokes starting at the RHE and work the finish a short way up towards the LHE. You will be able to judge how much. OK it still might not be dead level but it should be level enough. So you then let the finish do what it is designed to do self level. At this point I rotate the blank at around 3 to 6 RPM by hand for at least 20 minutes. Only if I get sagging will I allow the blank to rest in one spot to adjust. Thing is Bill it will only sag if you slap too much finish on in the first place. Any bubbles I pop with a fine sewing needle that has had the end smoothed a bit with some 400 wet and dry paper. Fine bubbles I gently breath on. You want the dregs of the air from the bottom of your lungs as this does a beter job. Beware if you have a beard as you could blow old food or such like into your work LOL but it happens believe me.
I may continue to rotate all the way around for up to 30 mintues and after that I rotate 180 degrees evrey one to two minutes. Depends on mix and air temp. I check the status of my mix in the mixing cup with a popsickle stick. As it stiffens up I can extend the time between rotations. I turn like this for about an hour.
Bill that's it. It just takes a bit of practice. Thing is to just go at it and not get too hung up. Worst thing you can do is mess with it once you have got it pretty level. That's when most of us would get into trouble. Time to actually apply finish say on a 4 inch butt wrap and level off with the brush a max of three to four minutes, probably less.
Right I am done exhausted and got to do some real work or I am fired.

Tight Lines

Mike Ol

Thanks for the suggestions Mike.
Ya get back to work, make money ---more blanks , finish, guides -more, more ???

Still wish I had a better working area instead of this small cluttered living room Doooowwwww