I read the board, magazine, glossary, books and try to keep up. I have seen a phrase a number of times that I just breezed over without ever questioning but that will now have to end. A customer came in today and started shaking blanks looking for a popping rod and I will be darn if he did not say - "I am looking for a blank with a good lock up point". What I wanted to say is keep on truckin but I just smiled and kept my mouth shut! Somebody please give me some solid facts and not a list of superlative adjectives as to what "lock up" point means in quantative terms.

Thanks

I would suggest you email Steve Pratt, Director of CTS blanks he does a really good job of explaining this. His email is--- stephen@ctsfishing.com

I may have started that phrase with the article on stand-up rods. I'm not sure, I didn't see it around until after the article came out. If it was out before, I'll assume that the person who coined it was using it the same way I did so as not to confuse you further.

At any rate, I used it to indicate the point on the blank where you really see no more flex. There are many blanks, particularly heavy stand up blanks, where you get to a point where the blank just doesn't flex any more, even as you apply more and more load. That place where it stops flexing under maximum load, would be what refer to as the "lock up point."

Let us know what Steve has to say on this if you contact him. For all I know, somebody else uses this term in a completely different way.

........

Tom if that is the case then the descriptive adjectives of good, awesome, poor, solid really do not apply. It would simply be a point on the length of the blank. I will send the email across the Pacific and see what comes back.

I may not have explained it very well. Try this... at some point as you load the blank, it will "lock up" and not flex any further beyond that point.

....

That's the way I see it also. It exists on almost every rod blank, from UL to Unlimited. I'm guessing what your customer was looking for was a blank with a higher "power transition zone", where more serious midsection power comes in. This part is usually a short way away from full lockup.

I have always heard and refered to that as the point where the blank "Shuts off". Meaning the same thing, it won't bend any more.

....is it similar to the "shut off point" ?

"Shut Off Point" is probably the same thing and most likelly the older and more common of the two terms.

...........

What blanks would tend to have a " high " shut off point ?? What would one look for in specks that might tend to have this ?

Bill,
Why didn't you just email me and ask? I could have explained the CTS definition to you very easily. The lockup point is the apex of the curve where the blank stops bending and straightens out under load. Fast action blanks have a lockup point that is higher up towards the tip, and slow action blanks have a lockup point further down the blank. The CTS blanks actually have 2 lockup points, one that is towards the tip , and one that is further down the rod towards the butt. The lockup point in the tip comes into play when casting a lure, and/or setting the hook. The bottom lockup comes into play when loading the blank more into the butt during fighting a fish. It's a very accurate and descriptive way of describing the action of a blank rather than just saying "fast" or "mod/fast".


Andy Dear
www.lamarfishing.com

Cool!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

Bill,
If someone said to me "I want a blank with a GOOD lockup point" I would have had to ask what does that mean? I am assuming by "good" he meant a very crisp distinct lockup point. However "good" still deosn't describe where the blank locks up, which is actually the more important characteristic one would need to know to reccomend the proper blank. Take a look at that White CTS blank Lance built out and had in y'alls booth in Charlotte. The lock-up point on that rod is about 8"-10" from the tip, and it indeed has a "good" lockup.


Andy Dear
www.lamarfishing.com

O heck I thought it was some thing high teck ? It is just a different way to state fast, medium or slow blank. A fast has it up higher cause of the tip flex fast action.
A moderate would have it more toward or in the middle cause of the moderate or medium action, and a slow may not have any at all cause it tends to flex all the way into the butt.

Is every body going to start to say " I am looking for a blank with a high lock up point, instead of I want a fast, tip flex blank

I am sorry guys but I do not buy that a blank will "lock up" in the sense that it completely quits deflecting at some point with more and more applied force. The stiffness of a blank can increase very rapidly, in fact exponentially, at some point on the blank but if it completely quits deflecting or "locks up" regardless of the applied force at a point on the blank it is going to break right at that point because all of the stress is going to be focused at that point. And as far as a blank having two "lock up points" is concerned well I guess someone understands that but I do not.

Good point ! maybe it is better to call it the power point. It does not lock up yet gets into the heaver more powerful part on the blank

Bill Sounds like that guy wanted a tip flex blank with some power in the mid and butt sections. A Hotshot maybe ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2006 12:08AM by bill boettcher.

Andy, I am really struggling with this lock up phrase. I am hoping that somehow another descriptive phrase on custom rods does not find its way into the "anglers world" that only confuses the issue when people try to describe a rod that they want. A custom builder can also contribute to this perpetuation of things that can throw people off when they are trying to "sell" a particular rod or blank. It is almost too much for me to deal with when they want a rod with a "lot of backbone". When they ask for one of those I go in the kitchen and add more Tobasco to the sauce!

When dealing with a conventional "popping" rod for use when speckled trout fishing in the marsh an extra fast blank is not a requirement and in most cases can be a hindrance. For years everyone has reccomended a moderate action blank for this technique of fishing. If there was a "solid/good/awesome" lock up point within an eight or nine inch distance from the tip on the seven foot popping rods sold to my customers my breakage rate rate surely would significantly increase due to high sticking. I was forced to quite building on the extra fast 904 designs specifically for this reason.

I really thought about handling this via personal email but wondered what good would there be ultimately when there was only one professor and one dummy like me in the classroom.

Fsh No Mo

I can see Bill why you would not build on any high end x-tra fast blanks. Ya they are light, sensative, but also you have to make sure the person fishing them takes care of it. I don't like to baby-sit a rod. They do like being abused and getting excited when catching a fish and thoughing it down - hits a rock - then the next big fish it may break. I would rather keep with a mid end blank. People will be people ??

This is really simple,
All were saying here is that there is a point or two in the blank where the stifness increases and the curvature under stress decreases due to significant changes in pattern/wall thickness etc.... Of course the curvature doesn't go away all together, it just requires more stress to make it curve into the stiffer area of the blank. And the lockup point is not really a "point" it's an area of a couple of inches along the blank where the curvature decreases under stress and the blanks starts to straighten. So if I take a 7' blank, put the butt on the floor against the inside of my shoe and stress the tip, there is a point where the blank straightens out due to the increase in stifness. Now if I stress the blank a little differently..... harder down the blank, the mid section will bend, and will straighten out, again due to the increase in stifness the further down the butt you go. This is with all blanks, not just CTS. It's simply an artifact of the design of the blank.

Like Emory said: "The stiffness of a blank can increase very rapidly, in fact exponentially" It is at these points of increase in the taper where the blank becomes stiffer and "locks up" under load.

Bill B. You said: "It is just a different way to state fast, medium or slow blank."

Well sort of, it's a way of giving a more accurate description of Fast, Moderate or Slow" You can have a blank with a lockup point 6" from the tip or 10" from the tip.....both may be fast action, but they are a little different.



Andy Dear
www.lamarfishing.com

Andy
I think the word " lock up " is where it gets scary. Don't you think it is more a " power " point ? The tip flexes, then going into the more powerful part of the mid and butt sections it tends to not flex as much. Still bends yet has more power. Lock up tends to make people think it " locks up " and does not bend ??