I have seen a lot of posts that note that metallic A is stronger than A nylon. I have had some problems with thread separation of A in the ramp up area of guide feet. The thread is not breaking but after use a gap is noted that was not present when the rods went out the door. I have seen the same thing on some factory rods. Evidently the thread is stretching and somehow moving around under the finish to cause a gap.

The metallic thread only has a few strands of very fine core thread and I am now wondering about stretch when loaded and memory ability. When I went to the Gudebrod site to nose around I noticed a funny thing in the thread strength table. Does anyone have an explanation for the two listings of break strength for A thread? If the 0.85 is correct then the stuff just might not be advisable for guide wraps when compared to A Nylon.

From Gudebrod Site:

[www.gudebrod.com]

Nylon Thread Stronger by weight than steel wire! Of all styles of thread manufactured by Gudebrod, our Nylon wrapping thread is the strongest and has the brightest color. Pressure dyed with high quality, color fast dye material. This thread is the best choice for wrapping guides, decorative diamond wraps on rod butts, or wrapping jigs and tying bucktails.

Size Diameter Break Strength
A .006 2.7 lbs.
D .0104 7.4 lbs
E .012 11.6 lbs.

HT® Metallic Thread

The brilliance of HT® Metallic thread will give the ultimate luster and sparkle to your custom rods.

Size Diameter Break Strength
HT® Metallic Thread and HT® Electra Metallic Thread
A 0.007 3.5 lbs.
D 0.0104 6.5 lbs.
Metallic Thread
A .007 .85 lbs (This is the line that concerns me)






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2006 09:36PM by Bill Stevens.

Bill,

I can't help but wonder if those numbers are where the foil overwrap tears?

I for one wouldn't worry, and here's why:

I have the very first rod I ever made from several years ago. I wrapped this rod in silver metallic ONLY. The rod has seen very heavy use (jerkbait rod) and has hundreds of nice smallmouth bass under it's belt. Since it was my 1st rod, naturally it isn't my best work and I wanted to replace it just for the "looks factor".

I bought a blank at the show to replace it with and was comparing the actions of the new and old blank today, and I really looked at the metallic wrapping and I mean looked at the well. The only thing I seen wrong was the epoxy over the silver metallic has yellowed QUITE a bit. Thats it.

I'd be more than willing to wrap another in just metallics. With the abuse this rod has taken on river float trips it would have fallen apart already if it were to ever happen.

Just my opinion.

DR

BILL - Does this gap also sometimes appear in your over-wraps when using REGULAR or NCP Nylon Thread ...?

The reason I ask is because I have gotten small gaps precisely at the tippy-tip of the guide toe after some rod use, on certain rods & guides, and I have still been hypothesizing that it is my guide foot preparation that needs some more refinement. I think I need to lower the toe's angle of rise, so that the tensed thread is not so inclined to roll downhill. And I need to really pack and roll-jam the thread down the toe better while turning the rod during wrapping. I wrap by hand. If you are using power, it may take a bit of extra effort on your part to do such a pack-jam down on the guide toe.

That is, of course, IF that is the cause of your problem, Bill. The Metallic-foil threads have a much slicker foil finish than the fibrous texture of any Nylon-fiber thread, so they would be more prone to roll down and slide down the guide toe, IMO.

Again, Bill, what I have relayed above, even if operating in your situation, may only be some of the problem. And I can't think of much else. Other than a toe that is not perfectly flat on the rod blank along the long axis to begin with.

I always assumed that suspect data that you cited above to be a typographical error at Gudebrod. And since it seemed to be inconsequential, I just ignored it. ... Like you are suggesting, maybe it is NOT a typo, and maybe it is somehow consequential.

Best Wishes, Bill. -Cliff Hall+++ FL-USA*****

P.S. - Any word from Ballard on Buky's healing?
'Still praying ... CMH+++



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2006 10:45PM by Cliff Hall.

Bill,
I have been using all metallic wraps on my bass rods for some time and have not encountered this problem. However I have noticed in doing butt wraps with metallic thread it has a certain amount of elasticity. I have to pin down my cross wraps with something or they will separate upon sitting. I use a bit of color presever to hold them in place prior to finishing with epoxy. As for the guide feet check your guide prep or maybe it has to do with the type of guide you're using. At any rate I have had no problems on any of the rods I've used it on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2006 08:37AM by sam fox.

"Does anyone have an explanation for the two listings of break strength for A thread? If the 0.85 is correct then the stuff just might not be advisable for guide wraps when compared to A Nylon"

Bill, I believe the answer to your question is the first 3.5# break strength is for HT metallic, the .85 is for REGULAR metallic. I could be wrong.

I have had the same gap open up after use, I thought the epoxy would prevent that from happeneing, but it certainly does happen. The one rod I used Madeira this happened pretty noticeably, and is 1 of the reasons I will not use it for guide wraps. I blame myself for not prepping the guide feet better, make the ramp much longer and thinner, and this problem should go away. In my head at least.

Billy I do not believe it has much to do with the prep. I have never had a gap in his area using A regular nylon or NCP. The last batch of three rods I did with metallic I purposely paid special attention to the ramp and even packed the thread when 1/2 way thorough the wrap which I never do - I wrap with moderate tension and do not ever use CP on a guide wrap. I am building on med lite popping blanks and the furthur toward the tip the more prevalent the gap. this is in the area where the blank deflection is the largest. I only have three threads before starting up the ramp to keep the wraps as short as possible. I use only one pass of A thread and lock em up with the Fornan. Metallics will be sayonara in my book for popping rod guide wraps.