Greetings,

Hope you guys don'g mind a small flurry of recent postings. Obviously no forum even comes close to this one anywhere on the web for collective community wisdom in rodbuilding.

Got to wondering. For L and UL spin rods, why do manufacturers not use more size 5 guides? Lighter, cheaper - AND more than enough diameter to pass any L and UL liges. (i.e. 10 lbs and under)

Even the regular size 6 is not large enough to pass through a swivel so why not go all the way down to size 5 for the advantages?

Or to put it in the negative, what are the disadvantages of size 5s for lines under 10 lbs?

I myself have never used below 6 simply because of convention but got to wondering this question.

Thanks,
Mo

It's cheaper and easier to buy a bizillion 6s, 7s and 8s that cover most everything out there. They match the majority of tip sizes your going to see on blanks.

I'm not sure about this, but I think that the 5s have not been out all that long, while the 6s have been around quite awhile. So, manufacterers were using the smallest guide that was easily available to them. And, now that they're set up to do it with 6s, why change?

Even now, the 5s aren't all that easy to get ahold of.

Fuji, Pac Bay, Sevier and Batson have collectively made #4 ring guides for about 20 years now. The match guide series.

I have no doubt that the really small sizes are fine for most applications, but the manufacturers are also fighting customer perception - many think that a really small ring guide can't possibly pass their lines easily (although they certainly can and do).

So much of the reason that the really small guides are used lies in the fact that consumers have a misconception concerning them and the commercial makers are not going to use anything that they feel may hurt sales.

...........

there are also many different fishing techniquies. i have some rods i use with 6# and 8# for reds, snook, and trout. these rods need to pass a 20 or 30 lb bite leader, you can see where a size 5 guide could cause problems here. on other rods i use straight spectra and the smaller the guide the better.

Thanks.

So the concensus is that for light lines (10 lbs and under), the smallest guides are just fine right? In the past, I thought these tiny guides would add more line drag and reduce casting distance. After reading other posts, apparently no.

Would I be correct in assuming that Fuji titanium frames in size 5 would be lightest tiny guides, apart from those ultra ultra light Recoils?

To be even more exact, anyone have the weight for a size 5 Fuji Titanium frame fly guide?

Thanks,
Mo

I myself think they are way too small. It is like making a 5 and a half weight fly line

Mo Yang,
I think that your question is a very good one. I have also wondered why #5's were not more universally available and used especially on lighter rods. On lighter rods with lighter lines by the time the line gets past the first few guides the difference in friction on the remaining guides is going to be insignificant between a #6 and a #5 but the weight difference will be significant. I did some testing for an article in RodMaker that showed that dropping one guide size on a typical Steelhead rod would result in between a 5% and 10% increase in the rods performance as determined by measuring the resonant frequency. On light or ultra light rods that you are asking about the increase in performance will be even larger.

Yea, but if ya get a bait that spins and spins the line, and decide to put a swivel on, there goes your top ring ? For weight Titans are good, or Fuji's. Personal thing

Hi Mo,
When you posted the question on 5.5mm guides the other day I weighed a 5mm guide and remember it was .5 of a grain heavier than Recoil size one SF guide. The total weight was about 1.4 or 1.5 grains per guide if I remember correctly. I'll have to double check that for you but I think that is what it was. For a point of reference it takes roughly 7,000 grains to make a pound. I am just finishing a 6' UL using the 5mm guides and Fuji TATSG guides and it seems pretty awesome. The blank's action didn't seem to be affected much by the addition of the guides and is still very responsive. Have to fish it before I make a final judgement though. I really like ultralites and this has some promise to being a great rod. Try it! Heck you can always build another one if you don't like it. LOL
Good luck.
Lynn
Santa Roa, CA

Greetings,

This is all much appreciated.

Lynn, thanks for responding - I was hoping that you would as I could not e-mail you. THis is what I know about weight:

Smallest Recoil spin guide is .07 grams.
Size 5 Amtac Titans that is filed down at the foot is .12 grams. So that is .05 grams heavier.
I believe that the smaller equal size 5 Titanium SICs are lighter than the Titans so it may be close to 1.0 grams but I do not have one to weight. If you would, I'd be very grateful.

The only remaining question in my mind whether the smaller ring with a slightly larger contact patch and smaller diameter exerts more friction when casting. I don't care about friction when reeling the line in, but casting matters.

Thanks,
Mo

Hi Mo,
The unit of measure that I indicated was in grains and not grams so it would have to be converted. I have another scale that weighs in both and I will do that when I get home tonight. The scales I use are for gunpowder and are acurate to 1/10th of a grain, but as grams are a larger unit of measure the measurement will be less accurate. I'll have to see how many decimal points my scale will show for grams. I have some Titan 6mm fly guides so I'll see what they weigh as well. It is neat that we have all of these different guide materials to choose from. Kind of like fine tuning your blank. Besides it fuels my titanium fetish.
Lynn
Santa Rosa, CA

Hi Mo,
Back to the question of weight of guides:
5mm Fuji .06-.07 grams
5.5mm Fuji .11-.12 grams
6mm Fuji .14-.15 grams
6mm titans .19 grams

1 gram = 15.432 grains
1 grain = 0.065 grams

It's really hard to accurately measure something so light in grams and that is why I listed a range. Hope this helps you.
Have fun on the project.
Lynn

Lynn,

Wow. THANKS!

Your scale and mine are pretty close then. I measured the size 6 titans at .21 grams. Probably variations from guide to guide. With really light units, I put something on the scale first, and then measure the weight by adding the item.

Thanks again!

Mo