I just completed making a fly rod from a (discontinued) Cascade RX-8 9 ft. 3-pc. 5 wt. blank. I sized the Fuji ceramic guides accordingly: a 12 mm V-frame stripper, a size 8 single foot, a size 7 single foot, seven size 6 single foots (feet?), and a size 6 tip-top. (The size seven is in there because I ran out of sixes.) Important: notice the preponderance of small guides.

The static testing placed a lot more guides towards the top than "normal". The spacing was significantly different from my usual spacing, which generally deviates only slightly from the charts.

I rigged up a five weight line, and there was not much performance at all. I had just gone pike fishing with an eight weight -- great sport! -- so I put that reel on the rod. I am not a distance caster, but I was able to shoot the whole line with this combo.

Back to the guides... By my thinking, all the guides were too small for an eight weight. The line fit through the size sixes, but not by much. Surprisingly, there was no problem getting as much line as I wanted into the cast. Up until now, I have been a believer in relatively large guides, but no more.

Has anybody else found this small guides/big line design to work so well?

Jim

There is plenty of room in a #6 ceramic ring to pass a #8 fly line. I think you are basing your experience on the wrong thing.

The greater effect is in having a more efficient rod. Smaller guides, being lighter, mean the rod is now free to use more of your imparted energy to cast the line rather than to stop and start the weight of the blank AND the guides.

Now the other side of the coin, and perhaps in your case one even more worth mentioning. The #8 line on the 5-weight rod cast great? Is that what you're saying? Don't look to the guides, look to the power of the blank versus the weight of the line per the distance you were casting. Never underestimate the effect that having the proper line on a rod can have. Just because a blank or rod may be labeled as a "5-weight" does not mean it will perform best with a 5-weight line.

The smallest and lightest guides that will do the job, coupled with the proper line for your fishing distance usually results in the greatest casting efficiency.

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Why not check the CCS data site to see if that blank is there and see what it is rated for ?

"Oversized Guides" was the big advertising gimmick for most companies saltwater fly rods in the 80's and 90's. Why anyone would think that using larger guides than necessary would do anything but rob you of distance is beyond me. But it worked and tons of rods were sold. I even saw custom builders using size 25 butt guides in order to "clear knots" but of course the knots just hung on the next guide or the one after that. It was all pretty silly.

The only reason I put #7 or #8's on 8wt and up rods is to clear the loops on shooting heads. If not for that you could probably use a #5 guides. You could pass four 10wt lines through a #6 guide at the same time just fine.

I just sold a "demo" saltwater fly rod that was built at/for a show to a gentleman who happily bought it since it was way marked down and then had me change the stripper to a 25mm casting guide before he ever put a reel on it & fished with it. When I asked why he showed me an excerpt from a book by a famous MD fly fisherman who recommended that buyers should look for that configuration and even go to a custom builder to have one switched in. I asked if he wanted to test cast it before I changed the guide -- "No. I want a 25mm stripper" . He now has a fly rod with a 25mm stripper and is happy.

How many times do you clean you fly line ??? Most people do it once in a day. You go to small on a guide then have a dirty line your asking for the guide to rob the rod of distance. I never even think about 5's. If the line is that small, then the rod is that light and I go for single foot wire

I think Jim's experience points to the fact that for the distance he was casting, that rod doesn't work well with a 5-weight line. The 8 was better able to load the rod and the small #6 guides didn't hamper line flow in any way.

I always use the smallest guides possible. The only caveat is that you do have to allow for what a customer may do with a rod - he may use large line/leader connections or loops on his shooting heads. In those instances you might find it wise to get just a little more space there with #7 or #8 guides. I've rarely found any good fly line combination that wouldn't easily pass through #8's.

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Thanks for the discussion, guys. (No women involved?) Tom, I previously read your idea of using the smallest guides, but I had my doubts. Now I have been shamed and admit that you are right, as always. 8^)

When I build a rod, I test it with the rated line, but in this case it was way off. The five weight did not do the job at any distance; the eight weight, which I thought would overpower the blank, was perfect from ten to 105 ft. Of course, it is the blank that supplies the power, not the guides. I thought that, since the guides cause friction, that a bigger diameter would not be so restrictive, i.e., the inevitable line waves had plenty of room on larger guides. I was surprised that a size six guide (which has a smaller inside diameter than 6 mm) did not seem to impede the shooting line at all.

Bill, I clean my fly line at least once daily. If I am fishing in murky water, water with algae, etc. I clean my line on the stream several times a day. I like to keep all my equipment -- lines, reels, and rods -- in as good a shape as possible, since I love fly rod technology. (I also change my oil every three thousand miles).

There are no data for Cascade or RX8 blanks on the Common Cents data site. I would enter the specs for this blank, except that it has been discontinued. I may do the Common Cents test just for my own curiosity, but the line test worked fine in this case.

BTW, I'm keeping the rod for myself and will use it on pike this weekend. My wife LOVES it when I add another personal rod to my collection. Actually, she believes that the best way to catch trout is with a piece of baloney from a lunch sandwich, since that's the way she caught brookies in Vermont, where she grew up. She knows that you don't need a fly rod at all to catch fish. 8^)

See you in Charlotte!

Jim

It would be interesting to know the ERN, but I'd guess that if the 5 just wouldn't cut it at all, you'd be looking at something along the lines of a 7.5+ ERN. Maybe even a lot higher.

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Only thing similar on the CCS site is a Rainshadow RX 8 - 9' - 4PC with numbers of 7.03 - 70